1914—How Is It Arrived At? (Daniel 4)

by AuldSoul 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AuldSoul

  The only chronology in the Bible tying anything to 1914, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, is found in Daniel 4.

  1914—How Is It Arrived At?

  Assumption #1: Luke 21:24 is referring to Nebuchadnezzar’s dream as related in Daniel 4, and that indicates a future fulfillment of Daniel 4.

  Assumption #2: The second fulfillment of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream relates to something entirely different than the initial fulfillment.

  Assumption #3: The seven times of Daniel 4 means seven years.

  Assumption #4: The seven years don’t mean seven years, they mean seven years of years, where each day of each year equals one year.

  Assumption #5: The seven years of years don’t mean seven years of years, they mean seven years of prophetic years, where each day equals 360 days.

  Assumption #6: Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.

  Assumption #7: We should add (7 times x 360 years of 365 (or 366) days each) 2,520 years to 607 B.C.E. to arrive at 1914 C.E.

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  Analysis of Assumption #1: Luke 21:24 matches Daniel 7 perfectly, but does not match Daniel 4 in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

  Analysis of Assumption #2: To make the elements mean something different is to call Daniel a liar when he stated what the elements meant. JWs frequently point to other prophecies in the Bible that had "multiple fulfillments" as defense of this assumption, however none of these other examples involve the meaning of the elements changing.

  Analysis of Assumption #3: There are occasions in the Bible where "times" refers to seasons. In this case, assuming reference to years is not unreasonable, but is not specifically stated.

  Analysis of Assumption #4: JWs apply the "principle" of a "day for a year" to this prophecy, although there is no indication in the text of a need to do so.

  Analysis of Assumption #5: JWs apply the "principle" of "prophetic years" based on one section of verses in Revelation that are completely unrelated to Daniel 4.

  Analysis of Assumption #6: Modern secular historian unanimously agree that there is no possible way Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. Unanimity is rare.

  Analysis of Assumption #7: For some reason, JWs switch from using "prophetic years" to actual years in mid-fulfillment. The difference in number of resulting years between the two methods is 36 years, counting leap years. If we keep the 360 day years, the actual resulting years would be 2484 years, which if run from 607 would bring you to 1875, not 1914.

  For anyone to believe Daniel 4 should be used to produce a chronology pointing to some two-and-a-half millenia into the future is an absurdity.

  AuldSoul
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  garybuss

  
  1914 didn't come from the Bible, it came from followers of William Miller e.g. 1844 + 30 = 1974 + 40 = 1914.
  See Three Worlds and Thy Kingdom Come, Volume #3 Studies In The Scriptures.
  
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  tetrapod.sapien

  Assumption # 0: There is a god(s).

  Assumption # 0.5: There is a God named Jehovah.

  Assumption # 0.666: He communicates with humans in Brooklyn NY.

  nice write up though AuldSoul!

  For anyone to believe Daniel 4 should be used to produce a chronology pointing to some two-and-a-half millenia into the future is an absurdity.

  absurd being the key word here...

  TS
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  AlmostAtheist

  And just for kicks, let's point out that whenever some shmuck sits down to interpret prophecy, he always manages to determine that it will be fulfilled in his lifetime, usually soon. Russell = 1874/1914, F Franz, et al = 1975

  It's the rare prophet granted the third-eye to see that armagedon will strike in 235 years.

  Dave
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  l3gi0n

  nice post
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  AuldSoul

  THAT would be a cool twist on a tired old theme, AA! Hey, starting the thought processes of a get rich slow scheme...

  ...just kidding. I can't stomach taking advantage of people's good-heartedness. I could'a been rich, I tells ya!
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  Alwayshere

  Daniel's dream delt with Neb. and 7times was to pass over his rulership. Daniel says nothing about the tree representing God's Kingdom. Watchtower Society just throws that in but if you want to be a part of that cult you have to believe it.
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  Hellrider

  Note on Assumption 5 - 7: Nowhere in Jeremiah or Daniel is the "day-for-a-year-rule" mentioned. This "rule" is very explicitly stated in the OT, when it is supposed to be used, such as Ezekiel 4.5, and here the context is very far away from the Babylonian era, about 400 years earlier. The "rule" is also mentioned in the Torah, also in a completely different context. But then again, ripping passages out of context to apply them elsewhere, to arrive at a desired date for the big A, is nothing new to the WTBTS. It is the basis of their whole religion. Also, the "celebrated WT scholars" seem to have forgotten that the Temple was rebuild after the return of the exiles from Babylon. The referance in Luke to "the gentiles" has nothing to do with the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians 700 years earlier. There are other "gentiles" in the world than the Babylonians, you know. In the eyes of the (religious) jews, we, the non-jews, were/are all "gentiles".
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  dorayakii

  This "rule" is not really a rule at all. In the two instances where it occurs in the scriptures, it is applied in two completely different and contradicting ways.

  In Numbers 13:34, the crime was 40 days long, and the punishment was 40 years of wandering... for the transgressors the nation of Israel.

  In Ezekiel 4:6, the crime lasted 390 and 40 years respectively for Israel and Judah, and the punishment was 390 and 40 days of lying on his side... but for the prophet Ezekiel himself.

  "God" has arbitrarily given out a punishment that matches the number of the length of time of the transgression. It is as if a judge has sentenced a serial rapist a saying, "You will serve 27 years, one year for each of the women you raped"... Say the judge made a similar statement only twice in his whole career, will you assume that this is now a "rule" and that the same judge will then give a 2-year sentence to a man who has raped only 2 women?

  That aside, applying the day-for-a-year "rule" to the 7 times prophecy gets you in a right pickle.

  What was the 7 times a punishment for? Was it 7 days or 7 years of transgressing? Or was it perhaps "7 weeks of prophetic years"...

  Who was the transgressor and who gets punished? In Numbers 13:34, the transgressors pay for their crime, but in Ezekiel 4:6 the "righteous prophet" Ezekiel pays for it.

  Why is there no specific mention of the day-for-a-rule principle in Daniel, if it was so central to its extended fulfillment? Why does one have to comb through the Bible in order to find some obscure scriptures which have a tenuous link at best with Nebuchadnezzars dream?
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  Jeffro

  Hellrider,

  Also, the "celebrated WT scholars" seem to have forgotten that the Temple was rebuild after the return of the exiles from Babylon.

  Shhhhhh.... you'll attract 'scholar'.