The Holy Spirit

by Leolaia 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    This was posted originally in the Rodney Dangerfield thread......

    I don't really know much about the Trinity other than what I was told as a JW but it does seem to me that the Holy Ghost is definitely running a distant third in the popularity contest. When JWs get into arguments with Trinitarians, it's almost always about whether Jesus is God, isn't it? Are there ever any heated discussions as to whether Jesus is the Holy Ghost? Does anyone really care? Did anyone ever believe in a Duality (just God and Jesus) instead of a Trinity?

    The short answer is that in early Christianity, conceptualization of the Holy Spirit as a distinct person suffered somewhat at the expense of christological thinking about Jesus. As the very means through which Christians experienced God and were filled with God, (cf. Acts 6:3; Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthains 3:16; Ephesians 2:22), the Spirit was definitely of central importance. The Christians also believed that the giving of the Spirit in their day was fulfilling the Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 11:1-3. More importantly, the Spirit was not thought of as totally impersonal, as the WTS claims, but was instead thought of in the same terms as, and indeed as being identical to, Wisdom personified. This draws on OT concepts which were elaborated considerably through the similar Hellenistic conception of Wisdom as feminine Sophia. First of all, it was a traditional Hebrew belief that "the Spirit of God" was the source of wisdom (cf. Genesis 41:38-39; Exodus 31:3-4; Deuteronomy 34:9; Isaiah 11:2), such that the Spirit was also frequently called "the Spirit of Wisdom". Prophecy was thus believed to result from an in-dwelling of Spirit of Wisdom, revealing the "Word of God" through visions (cf. Genesis 15:1; Numbers 24:4; 1 Kings 17:24), thus Numbers 24:16 says that "one who sees a vision from the Almighty ... hears the words of God" and "has knowledge from the Most High", and prophets frequently described their prophecy as the "Word of God" coming upon them (cf. 1 Kings 13:1; 1 Chronicles 17:3; 2 Chronicles 11:2; Jeremiah 2:1; Ezekiel 21:1). Thus we see a very rough equivalence between the "Spirit", "Wisdom", and "Word" of God. The expression "Holy Spirit" (rwch hqwds) first occurs in Isaiah 63:9-14 where it is identified with "neither messenger nor angel but [God's] Presence" and the "Spirit of Yahweh". The personification of Wisdom first occurs throughout the book of Proverbs. Whereas Genesis 1:2 presents God's "Spirit" as hovering over the waters at creation, Proverbs 8 refers to Wisdom as a partner in creation:

    "Yahweh brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind." (Proverbs 8:22-31)

    The following chapter describes a banquet that Wisdom hosts in her palace (cf. Proverbs 9:1-6). It has been pointed out that the conception of Wisdom in Proverbs derives in part from the Canaanite belief in Asherah as the consort of the creator-god El, who gave birth to all the other gods and (possibly) to humanity (see my post on this subject for more information), and who also with El hosts banquets in their mountainous palace. In later wisdom literature we find a similar personification:

    "Before all other things wisdom was created, shrewd understanding is everlasting. For whom has the root of wisdom ever been uncovered? Her resourceful ways, who knows them? Only one is wise, terrible indeed, seated on his throne, the Lord. He himself has created her, looked on her and assessed her, and poured out out on all his works, to be with mankind as his gift, and he conveyed her to those who love him.... She was created with the faithful in their mothers' wombs, she has made a nest among men, an age-old foundation, and to their offspring she will cling faithfully" (Sirach 1:4-10, 14-15).
    "And so I prayed, and understanding was given to me, I entreated, and the Spirit of Wisdom came to me. I esteemed her more than sceptres and thrones; compared to her, I held riches as nothing....All these I delighted in, since Wisdom brings them, but as yet I did not know that she was their mother... For within her is a Spirit intelligent, holy, unique, manifold....She is so pure, she pervades and permeates all things. She is the breath of the power of God, pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty; hence nothing impure can find a way into her. She is a reflection of the eternal light, untarnished mirror of God's power, image of his goodness....In each generation she passes into holy souls, she makes them friends of God and prophets.... for light must yield to night, but over Wisdom evil can never triumph" (Wisdom 7:7-8, 12, 22, 24-26, 30).

    1 Enoch, which claims that the Spirit has abandoned Israel because of Israel's unfaithfulness to God (42:1-3) but promises it would be again sent a a blessing to those who trust God: "In those days ... to the elect there shall be light, joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth...And then Wisdom shall be given to the elect. And they shall all live and not return again to sin, but those with Wisdom shall be humble" (1 Enoch 5:6-9). We find the same point of view in the Dead Sea Scrolls. 1QS 3:18b-4:1 similarly states that God has appointed two spirits for humankind so that he would "walk with them until the moment of his visitation." These spirits are "of truth and deceit" (3:18). Those who "walk the path of light" are associated with the "Prince of Light", whereas those who "walk the path of darkness" follow the "Angel of Darkness" (3:20-21). It is in reference to the "Spirit of Truth" that we also encounter the name "Holy Spirit" or "Spirit of Holiness" (rwch hqwds):

    "The soul of your servant ahbors every work of injustice. I know that no one can be righteous apart from you. And I entreat your favor by that Spirit which you have given me, to fulfill your mercy with your servant forever, to cleanse me by your Holy Spirit, and to bring me near your grace according to your great mercy....I give thanks to you, O Lord, for you have sustained me with your strength and your Holy Spirit you have spread out over me so that I will not falter.... (1QH 8:19-21; 15:6-7)
    "It is written, 'In the wilderness prepare a way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God'. This means the expounding of the Law, decreed by God through Moses for obedience, that being defined by what has been revealed for each age, and by what the prophets have revealed by his Holy Spirit" (1QS 8:14-16)

    As the quote from 1 Enoch shows, the common belief was that Wisdom, that is the Holy Spirit of prophecy, had ceased within Israel with the last of the OT prophets (cf. also 1 Macabees 4:46, 14:41; 2 Baruch 85:3-4) but would again turn to God's people (cf. also 4 Ezra 14:22; Ascension of Isaiah 5:14; SibOr 3:580-583). Thus it was hoped that a prophetic reawakening was occurring among the Essene Qumran community, and later among the Christians as well. As 1 Enoch makes very clear, the return of the Spirit would occur through the promised Messiah:

    "Wisdom could not find a place in which she could dwell; but a place was found for her in the heavens. Then Wisdom went out to dwell with the children of the people but she found no dwelling place. So Wisdom returned to her place, and she settled permanently among the angels...[Then] the Son of Man whom you have seen will remove the kings and the mighty ones from their thrones. He shall loosen the reins of the strong and crush the teeth of the sinners. He shall depose the kings from their thrones and kingdoms. For they do not extol and glorify him, and neither do they obey him, the source of his kingship....I then saw the fountain of righteousness, which does not become depleted and is surrounded completely by numerous fountains of wisdom. Then their dwelling places become with the holy, righteous, and elect ones. At that hour, that Son of Man was given a name, in the presence of the Lord of Spirits, ... he became the Messiah, he was concealed in the presence of the Lord of the Spirits prior to the creation of the world, and for eternity. And he has revealed the Wisdom of the Lord of the Spirits to the righteous and the holy ones....So Wisdom will flow like water and glory is measureless before him forever and ever.... The Messiah stands before the Lord of the Spirits; his glory is forever and ever and his power is unto all generations. In him dwells the Spirit of Wisdom, the Spirit with gives thoughtfulness, the Spirit which gives knowledge and strength" (1 Enoch 42:1-2, 46:4-5, 48:1-6, 49:1-3).

    This is close to the conception of the Spirit in the Gospel of John, which is likened to "fountains of living water" (cf. John 4:10-24, 7:37-39; compare also Odes of Solomon 6:6-18), and which characterized the return of the Spirit to God's people as through Jesus. But early Christians wavered between imagining Jesus as filled with the Holy Spirit, as the recepticle of divine Wisdom, or himself being Wisdom. We may note that at Jesus' baptism, the Holy Spirit came upon him (Mark 1:10; Matthew 3:16; Luke 3:21), and he received God's confirmation of his divine sonship and Messianic mission (Matthew 3:13-14). This christology is adoptionist in character and thus we see that Jesus went up from the Jordan full of the Holy Spirit (Luke 4:1), after his temptation began his ministry "in the power of the Spirit" (Luke 4:14), and cast out demons "by the finger of God," and OT phrase denoting God's power (Luke 11:20; cf. Exodus 8:9; Psalm 8:3). We should not forget that throughout the NT the "Holy Spirit" remains analogous to "Wisdom". Thus Jesus is also described as "filled with wisdom" (Luke 2:40), the disciples are described as "full of Spirit and wisdom" (Acts 6:3), and Paul noted that "the utterance of wisdom" and "the utterance of knowledge" is "given through the Spirit" and "according to the same Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:8). This wisdom most specifically relates to moral didactic teaching; thus moral virtues are "the fruit of the Spirit" in Galatians 5:22-23 (and gifts of the Spirit in 4QS 4:2-4 and Hermas, Mandate 11:8) and "fruits of Wisdom" in James 3:13-17. The moral teaching of Jesus in the synoptic gospels (especially in Q) and James thus represents the return of divine Wisdom to God's people. The inaugural sermon of Jesus, Q/Luke 6:20-49 is a wisdom discourse, and even the blessings at the beginning of the sermon have parallels in wisdom literature. But while Wisdom calls blessed the wise who follow her percepts and do what is demanded (cf. Proverbs 8:32-34; Sirach 14:1, 2, 20, 50:28), Jesus blesses the situation in which those to whom his message comes happen to be: the poor, the hungry, those who weep, those who are persecuted. We thus find Jesus not only in the guise of Wisdom, but also as a prophet proclaiming the eschatological moment as the coming of the Kingdom of God (cf. Q 9:57-62; 10:9; 10:21-24; 12:22-34).

    But we also find Jesus himself as identified with heavenly Wisdom. This is especially evident in Q/Luke 10:21-22 which defines the relationship of Jesus to the Father in terms of the established sapiential concept of Wisdom and God. Jesus' later condemnation of the Pharisees and scribes, and his lament over Jerusalem, also has strongly links Jesus with Wisdom. The following passage from Matthew has Jesus speaking just like Wisdom, as the one who sent the prophets of old, and uses feminine Wisdom imagery of Jesus like a hen protecting "her chicks under her wings":

    "Serpents, brood of vipers, how can you escape being condemned to Gehenna? This is why, in my turn, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of you will slaughter and crucify, some of you will scourge in your synagogues and hunt from town to town; and so you will draw down on yourselves the blood of every holy man that has been shed on earth, from the blood of Abel and the holy to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. I tell you solemnly, all this will recoil on this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you! How often have I longed to gather your children, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you refused! So be it! Your house will be left to you desolate" (Matthew 23:33-38).

    The parallel passage in Luke, in fact, attributes much of this discourse to Wisdom:

    "And that is why the Wisdom of God said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles; some they will slaughter and persecute, so that this generation will have to answer for every prophet's blood that has been shed since the foundation of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who has murdered between the altar and the sanctuary.' Yes, I tell you, this generation will have to answer for it all.... Jerusalem! Jerusalem! You that kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you! How often have I longed to gather your children, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused! So be it! Your house will be left to you" (Luke 11:49-51, 13:34-35).

    Jesus is also Wisdom who offers her mild yoke to all who wish to come (Matthew 11:28-30; cf. Sirach 6:24-28, 51:23-26, "Come close to me, you uninstructed, ... put your necks under her yoke and let your souls receive instruction, ... for in the end you will find rest in her"), and just like Wisdom he promises that good works will confer Sonship from the "Most High":

    Sirach 4:10: "Be like a father to orphans and as good as a husband to widows, and you will be like a son of the Most High (kai ese hos huios hupsistou)."

    Luke 6:35: "Do good, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High (kai esesthe huioi hupsistou)".

    The description of Jesus with language derived from the Wisdom literature runs throughout the NT. Thus in Sirach 24:21, Wisdom declares: "Those who eat of me (hoi estheontes me) will hunger for more (eti peinasousin), and those who drink of me (hoi pinontes me) will thirst for more (eti dipsesousin)." This directly recalls the consumption motif in John: "I am the bread of life; he who comes to me (ho erkhomenos pros me) shall not hunger (ou me peinase), and he who believes in me (ho pisteuon eis eme) shall never thirst (ou me peinase popote).... He who eats my flesh (ho trogon mou ten sarka) and drinks my blood (pinon mou to aima) has eternal life" (John 6:35, 54). The clearest instance where the divinity and nature of Wisdom was transferred to Christ relates to her pre-existence and Creatorship, which were key ingredients in the christological development of Jesus as the pre-existent Creator of the world and as the reflection of God's glory. These themes were developed by Philo of Alexandria in his Logos philosophy, and the Jewish wisdom literature was directly utilized in such christological statements in John, Hebrews, and Colossians:

    "She is a breath of the power (dunameos) of God, pure emanation of the glory (doxes) of the Almighty.... She is the radiance (apaugasma) of the eternal light, untarnished mirror (esoptron akelidoton) of God's active power (energeias), image (eikon) of his goodness." (Wisdom 7:25-26)

    "He is the radiant light (apaugasma) of God's glory (doxes) and the perfect copy (kharakter) of his nature (hupostaseos), and upholds all things by the word of his power (tes dunameos autou)." (Hebrews 1:3)

    "He is the image (eikon) of the unseen God and the firstborn of all creation." (Colossians 1:15; cf. also Proverbs 8:22, Sirach 1:4)

    "She is a radiance of the eternal light (photos aidiou) ... over Wisdom evil can never triumph (ou katiskhuei)." (Wisdom 7:26, 30)

    "The Word was the true light (phos to alethinon)... a light that darkness could not overpower (ou katelaben)." (John 1:5, 9)

    "God of our ancestors, Lord of mercy, who by your Word (en logo sou) have made all things (poiesas ta panta)." (Wisdom 9:1)

    "In the beginning was the Word (ho logos).... all things (panta) came into being (egeneto) by him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being." (John 1:1, 3)

    "For by him all things (panta) were created (ektisthe), both in the heavens and on the earth." (Colossians 1:15)

    "His Son, whom he appointed heir of all things (panton), through whom also he made (epoiesen) the world? We understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God (hermati theou)." (Hebrews 1:2; 11:3)

    Thus we see that Jesus absorbed from the Holy Spirit/Wisdom many traits and roles traditionally ascribed to her. In this connection, we see that 1 Peter 1:10-11 speaks of the "Spirit of Christ" as being the one who spoke through the prophets old, who "predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow". The same expression also occurs in Paul, who occasionally implies that the Holy Spirit and Christ are one and the same:

    "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness....The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children." (Romans 8:9-11)
    "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." (2 Corinthians 3:17, 18)

    "Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, 'Abba, Father.' " (Galatians 4:6)

    The Spirit within God, knowing his thoughts, is also likened to the spirit within a man who "knows his thoughts" (1 Corinthians 2:10-11). That Paul conceived the Spirit as having personality is clear from many texts (cf. Romans 8:27; 1 Corinthians 12:11; cf. Ephesians 4:30; Acts 20:23-28), which naturally follows from the Spirit being the in-dwelling of the Son and/or the Father, but Paul's interchangeable use of terms suggests a fluid conception of the Spirit distinguished only from Christ and the Father via triadic formulae (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; 2 Corinthians 13:14; compare also Ephesians 4:4-6). John, as we saw above, identified Jesus with the Word of God which in the OT referred distinctly to the Spirit, but he preserved a distinct personality for the Spirit as the Paraclete or Counselor "who goes out from the Father", identical to the Essene notion of the Spirit of Truth:

    " 'And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever, the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.' " (John 14:16, 17)
    " 'But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.' " (John 14:26)
    " 'When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.' " (John 15:26)

    1 Clement 16:2 refers to Christ as inspiring OT scripture "through his Holy Spirit," and Barnabas 1:3 describes the Spirit as "poured out upon you from the Lord". Neither of these identify Jesus with the Spirit but designate him as the source of the Spirit. The most striking statements about the Son being the Holy Spirit are found in the Shepherd of Hermas of Rome:

    "The Holy Spirit which pre-exists, which created all creation, did God make to dwell in the flesh which he willed. Therefore this flesh (i.e. the Son), in which the Holy Spirit dwelled, served the Spirit well, walking in holiness and purity." (Hermas, Similitude 6.5)
    "After I had written the commandments and parables of the shepherd, the angel of repentance, he came to me and said to me: ?I wish to show you what the Holy Spirit which spoke with you in the form of the Church showed you, for that Spirit is the Son of God." (Hermas, Similitude 9.1.1)

    Athenagorus of Athens (A.D. 177) characterized the Holy Spirit as "an effluence of God which flows from him and returns like a ray of the sun" which represents the union between the Son and the Father: "The Son is in the Father and the Father in the Son by a powerful unity of the Spirit, the Son of God being the mind and Word of the Father" (Legatio 10:2, 4), and "the Son of mind, Word, and Wisdom of the Father and the Spirit an effluence like light from fire" (24:2). Irenaeus (c. A.D. 180-190) tried to bring the Holy Spirit as Wisdom back into the picture as a co-creator with the Son, and as a distinct personality from him:

    "Through the Word and the Spirit God made, ordered, and governed all things, and gives them being." (Adversus Haereses, 1.22.1)
    "Man is a blend of soul and flesh. He was fashioned in the likeness of God and formed by the hands of God, that is, by the Son and the Spirit, to whom he said, 'Let us make man.' " (Adversus Haereses, 4. praef. 3)
    "Angels did not make or fashion us. Angels could not have made the image of God, nor could any other have done this but the Word of God, nor a power much less than the Father of all. In carrying out his intended work of creation, God did not need any help from angels, as if he had not his own hands. For he has always at his side his Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit. Through them and in them he created all things of his own free will. And to them he says, 'Let us make man.' " (Adversus Haereses, 4.20.1)

    "We have shown at length that the Word, that is, the Son, was always with the Father. And also God tells us, through the mouth of Solomon, that Wisdom, that is the Spirit, was with him before the whole creation: 'The Lord established the earth by his Wisdom. . .' [Proverbs 3:19] and again, 'The Lord created me for his works as the beginning of his ways. . .' " (Adversus Haereses, 4.20.3)

    In Proof of the Apostolic Preaching 5, Irenaeus clarifies the distinction in role between the Son and the Holy Spirit: "The Spirit manifests the Word, and therefore the prophets announced the Son of God, but the Word articulates the Spirit, and therefore it is himself who gives their message to the prophets, and takes up man and brings him to the Father." Similarly, he also wrote: "The Spirit prepares man for the Son of God, the Son leads man to the Father, the Father gives man immortality" (Adversus Haereses, 4.20.4). All this tries to clarify the individual role and function of the Son and the Holy Spirit and assert an individuality which earlier had not been clearly and consistently conceived. Thus, while Hermas apparently had only a dyadic conception of the Son and the Father, and while Paul had earlier characterized the Spirit as sent from both Christ and God and as either's presence in man, Irenaeus builds on pre-existing dyadic and triadic distinctions between the Son and the Holy Spirit, which Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, and the later the Nicenean Trinity doctrine would later formalize.

  • Valis
    Valis

    why do you intentionally try to explode people's brains? Tell me...why????

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • Puternut
    Puternut

    Leolaia,

    Could you repeat what you just said?

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    Leolaia, this is fascinating stuff... but if I were you, I wouldn't call it a "short answer".

    For those of you who want the Cliff Notes version, here it is:

    More importantly, the Spirit was not thought of as totally impersonal, as the WTS claims, but was instead thought of in the same terms as, and indeed as being identical to, Wisdom personified... Prophecy was thus believed to result from an in-dwelling of Spirit of Wisdom, revealing the "Word of God" through visions... Thus we see a very rough equivalence between the "Spirit", "Wisdom", and "Word" of God.
    ...
    Thus we see that Jesus absorbed from the Holy Spirit/Wisdom many traits and roles traditionally ascribed to her.
    ...
    Thus, while Hermas apparently had only a dyadic conception of the Son and the Father, and while Paul had earlier characterized the Spirit as sent from both Christ and God and as either's presence in man, Irenaeus builds on pre-existing dyadic and triadic distinctions between the Son and the Holy Spirit, which Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, and the later the Nicenean Trinity doctrine would later formalize.
    (Apologies to Leolaia if I've mischaracterized her main points.)
  • kes152
    kes152

    Greetings!

    If I may, here is a more "simple" answer. in 1 Corinthians 2:11-13 says, "For who among men knows the "things of man" except the SPIRIT of man that is in him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God, except the SPIRIT of God. Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given to us by God. These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by spirit, as we match spiritual with spiritual."

    In 1 Corinthians 2:10 says, "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into ALL things, even the 'deep things' of God."

    The spirit that is in men knows the things of a man.. even the DEEP things of men. In the same way, the spirit that is in God knows God, even the DEEP things of God. Also, this spirit searches into all things and can reveal ALL things to anyone willing to 'listen to' or receive' this spirit. The spirit is the 'essence' of all things living. Just as the spirit of man possesses even the "deepest things" of man, so also the spirit of God carries the very 'essence' of God, even the DEEP things of God. Therefore, when this spirit proceeds FROM THE Father and comes to us, it will reveal to us the deep things of God, even the very essence of God. It revelas his emtions, his love, his feelings, his commandments, his love even for us, his love for all things... even the deepest of things. If we receive such spirit, we will come to "know God" and also become personally 'known' BY God.. due to his spirit that he has given us (1 John 4:13).

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    If I may, here is a more "simple" answer.

    I am reminded, just now, that there are at least two distinct meanings for "simple".

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Leolaia,

    Be patient now. As you know I have to print and study your posts and I will be gone most of tomorrow with the family. If I have to I will resurrect this thread when I get a handle on it.

    Jst2laws

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    For a person raised as a witness, this nuanced discussion of the gradual understanding/evolution of the perception of the holy spirit is very mind expanding.
    It reminds me that the idea of the holy spirit I had growing up, and as an adult witness, was so very elementary and crude.
    Thanks leolaia. Keep up the great research/sharing.

  • toreador
    toreador

    Fascinatint Leolaia! How do find time to research and post all this stuff? It is appreciated!

    Tor

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Everyone, thanks for the positive response. Pistoff....Theological change, like the development of the Trinity doctrine as a whole, is gradual and doctrines that received their final form centuries later often have their roots in rather early material. The Society always likes quoting scholars of theology as saying that "the Trinity doctrine is not taught in the Bible," but they strenuously deny what these same scholars claim is in the Bible....the early developments that led to the teaching. Euphemism.....Hehehe, I think I only intended my first sentence, the summary sentence, to be the "short answer". Toreador....The sad thing is, I don't have time to research like this....but I'm doin' it anyway....it's like an addiction I can't stop....

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