Paradise earth, polar bears & JWs

by Brummie 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Brummie
    Brummie

    Just a few thoughts on the Paradise earth doctrine since this is always the issue when a JW appears:

    The Scripture most JWs use when on service is MATT 5:5 "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth"...

    I have seldom met a JW who applies this Scripture to the anointed! Yet the Society teaches that MATT 5:5 does apply to the anointed:

    In the ‘Insight into the Scriptures’ book VOL 1 page1201, under the heading “The Christian Inheritance” we read the following…

    The anointed members of the Christian Congregation are spoken of as having a heavenly inheritance sharing Jesus inheritance as his brothers – Ephesians 1:4, Colossians 1:12, 1Peter 1:4-5. This includes the earth (Matthew 5:5)!

    Hence those with an heavenly inheritance are said to inherit the earth! It makes sense, Jesus has inherited the earth even though he is in heaven. I'd be interested in any JW view of this. The Great Crowd do not even inherit the earth! How many JWs are aware of this? Why do they use that Scripture and apply it to the householder when on the doors? Deceptive?

    Concerning the ‘Great Crowd’ of Revelation 7 for instance, we had been taught that people had struggled for centuries to identify who this great crowd really was (Charles Taz Russell had taught that the innumerable great crowd was a Heavenly class of people numbering 411,840,000!). Then in 1935 great flashes of ‘new light’ had shone forth into the minds of the governing body allowing them to see that the Great Crowd was infact an earthly class. The Society turned to John 10:16 to support this new light ’the other sheep class’. But where did this New Light come from? I had suggested light came from Jehovah’s spirit, maybe!

    What should disturb every JW (though it seldomm does!) is that the society suggested this New Light may have been communicated to them by resurrected spirits of the dead! While the governing body had no problem with this, the Bible condemns it!

    The Revelation book commenting on Rev.7:13-14. States:

    “Yes, that elder could locate the answer and give it to John, this suggests that the resurrected ones of the 24 elders group maybe involved in the communicating of divine TRUTHS today” (page 125.) Is this not communicating with the dead! or put another way ‘receiving messages from the spirit world’?

    Compare this statement with the following statement made by the same governing body under the heading ‘Spirit Mediums’

    “ Another way that Satan misleads people is through mediums. A medium is a person who is able to receive messages from the spirit world. A great many people, including mediums themselves, believe that these messages come from spirits of the dead…The demons actually pretend to be spirits of the dead”.

    (W,Tower booklet: Spirits of the dead, can they help you or harm you? page 15)

    The organisation calls itself the channel of communication; are JWs not bothered that this is exactly the same term that spirit mediums use. When I began to research earlier W,tower material, I discovered that this channelling of spirit messages was not a new thing but had existed throughout the Watchtower’s history. As the society condemns the practice in its writings I was quite shocked to see that they also promote it and maybe even practice it.

    Interestingly, to support the New Light concerning the Great Crowd, the society appealed to JOHN 10: 16, claiming that when Jesus talked about THE OTHER SHEEP he was referring to an earthly class. Yet any unbiased reading of the scripture will show that Jesus wasn’t supporting such a doctrine at all, rather than speaking about a earthly or heavenly class Jesus was talking about the Jews and the Gentiles! He was addressing the Jews and telling them about His other sheep THE GENTILES. The context confirms this, verse 19 of John 10 says “again a division resulted amongst the Jews” clearly he was addressing the Jews and telling them about the Gentiles not addressing the heavenly class and telling them about the earthly class! This distortion of Jesus words could only be communicated through a wrong channel. See Ephesians 2:11-18, which also confirms that Jew & Gentile, was the topic of Jesus discussion.

    Hence neither Matt 5:5 or John 10:16 supports the JW belief about the Great crowd!

    Jehovah’s Witnesses are being taught that the faithful men of old i.e. Abraham Isaac & Jacob, will be resurrected back onto the paradise earth, yet the Bible teaches these men will be IN (not UNDERNEATH) the kingdom of HEAVEN (MATT 8:11), see also Hebrews 11:10-16.


    The governing body will not accept scripture if it disagrees with their Watchtower doctrine, worse still they will CHANGE the Scriptures to make them fit in with their system of beliefs. Compare Hebrews 11: 11-16 with other translations of the Bible or even with their own KITranslation, again its obvious to see why they would alter this scripture.

    JWs attack anyone who believes in a "heavenly hope", they make a mockery of the Christian who says "The Christian hope is to be with Christ, whether that be in heaven or on earth"! Why? Because JWs would rather be in Paradise with Polar bears than with Christ in heaven....a mockery?

    Brummie

  • Flowerpetal
    Flowerpetal

    Brummie, you said>>What should disturb every JW (though it seldomm does!) is that the society suggested this New Light may have been communicated to them by resurrected spirits of the dead! While the governing body had no problem with this, the Bible condemns it!

    The Revelation book commenting on Rev.7:13-14. States:

    “Yes, that elder could locate the answer and give it to John, this suggests that the resurrected ones of the 24 elders group maybe involved in the communicating of divine TRUTHS today” (page 125.) Is this not communicating with the dead! or put another way ‘receiving messages from the spirit world’?

    No not to me---even though I don't agree with what the Revelation book says here, it does say that one of the 24 elders group IS resurrected. If that person is resurrected, and is in heaven, that person isn't dead anymore! So it's not communicating with the dead.

  • artful
    artful

    Awesome post Brummie!
    I just had a discussion about Matt 5:5 the other night as having application to those who are Christ's brothers (read: his brothers in heaven). Having used this at the doors for many years, I had no idea that the WTS made application of this scripture to the anointed!! This is a scripture that my JW brother will use to 'prove' there will be an earthly class. To which comment I wrote the following rebuttal:

    Matt 5:5 which refers to the meek inheriting the earth really presents no problem with the idea of a heavenly dwelling for Christians. First of all an inheritance is something that one receives into their possession from another party. In this case the meek would possess the Earth by having it passed to them by Jesus. This statement in itself, does not mean that they have to "live on" the Earth. For instance, if one of your relatives died and left you their home, you could be said to have inherited it, or have it in your possession. However, this does not necessarily mean that you would be living in it.

    Those Christians dwelling on Earth during the first century were also said to have inherited the Earth at that time. This is because they had already been "transferred into the Kingdom" (Colossians 1:13) as Christ's subjects and priests (Revelation 1:6-9). Christ had of course been granted "all authority in heaven and Earth" and had chosen such meek ones (initially his 12 disciples) to look after his Earthly subjects. So these ones had at that time been granted possession (or inherited) Christ's possessions on Earth.

    Given the fact that the WTS actually applies this scripture to the anointed anyway, it would seem that it is not my thinking that needs to be adjusted to be 'in step' with Jehovah's organization (LOL), but that of the average JW that makes application of this scripture to themselves, and those they preach to!!! Thank you very much for pointing this out!

    Thank you as well for pointing out that scripture in Ephesians 2:11-18 as the obvious parallel to the 'other sheep'. I was just going to look for that reference this evening (maybe you have been 'spirit-directed' to provide this food to me at the 'proper time' - LOL ;-)

    Cheers
    Artful

  • Brummie
    Brummie

    Flowerpetal

    No not to me---even though I don't agree with what the Revelation book says here, it does say that one of the 24 elders group IS resurrected. If that person is resurrected, and is in heaven, that person isn't dead anymore! So it's not communicating with the dead.

    Yes Flower, they believe they are resurrected spirits, just like mediums believe the same thing, to which the Watchtower would respond:

    “ Another way that Satan misleads people is through mediums. A medium is a person who is able to receive messages from the spirit world. A great many people, including mediums themselves, believe that these messages come from spirits of the dead…The demons actually pretend to be spirits of the dead”.

    (W,Tower booklet: Spirits of the dead, can they help you or harm you? page 15)

    The pot calling the kettle black? Like I said JWs are seldom disturbed by this.

    Thanks for your comments artful, I seldom argue doctrine with JWs but it seems you cant progress in any discussion with them about the organisation until you have discussed the "kingdom" or paradise. Hope your discussions with the JWs prove fruitful.

    Brummie

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    WHERE'S THE POLAR BEARS???

    Nina

  • Brummie
    Brummie

    Just for you Cruz...

    I meant to say Panda bears when I wrote the title of the thread! Sleeping Panda Bear Photos, Pictures and Photographs

    brummie (wondering if the jpeg will show class)

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    Alright, I'm happy now. Carry on.

    Nina

  • bebu
    bebu

    Interesting article! Thanks so much.

    JWs attack anyone who believes in a "heavenly hope", they make a mockery of the Christian who says "The Christian hope is to be with Christ, whether that be in heaven or on earth"! Why? Because JWs would rather be in Paradise with Polar bears than with Christ in heaven....a mockery?

    Is this a quote or misquote from a WT article? If so, what is the reference? If not, sorry for my silly question!

    :^P

    bebu

  • Brummie
    Brummie
    Is this a quote or misquote from a WT article? If so, what is the reference? If not, sorry for my silly question!

    Sorry I'm late bebu, I missed the train, so anyway, 2 years later the answer to your question is that wasnt a quote from the WT but a summary of their mockery. See, wait on Jah and the answer to your question does come in due time. *winks*

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