Christ's death of the cross disproves any Issue of Universal Sovereignty

by yadda yadda 2 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    John 15:13 "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

    Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

    Since Jesus was the perfect reflection of his heavenly father, these scriptures above show that if Jehovah was able, he would have given up his own life for the human race. In normal human relationships, a loving parent would sacrifice their own life to save their dying child if there was no other way. Any parent would endure any slander, lie, or false accusation rather than see their child suffer terribly and die.

    Therefore, how could it be that God feels that settling some so-called issue about the vindication of his name and challenge about His right to rule and the rightness of his rule are more important than preventing the human race from suffering thousands of years of untold death and gratuitous evil and misery, most of which is not caused by individual moral choice but through no fault of the sufferer (eg, child diseases, earthquakes)?

    Would we not expect Jehovah, like Jesus, to have been prepared to sacrifice his own reputation and ignore any personal slander and lie about the rightness of his rule and motives, knowing full well they were lies, rather than see his human children suffering thousands of years of evil and horrific suffering? Jesus showed by willingly giving up his life on the cross that he was prepared to do just that, so why not Jehovah?

    Going by Jesus' example, if God is love, we would expect his love for humanity to be so great that he would have sacrificed His own need for vindication and being proven right rather than let the human race suffer so terribly for so long.

    I'm speaking from the perspective of those who believe the Bible is inerrant, such as JW's.

  • Prognoser
    Prognoser

    But if Jesus is God, as Christendom believes, then God did carry out the greatest act of love.

  • mP
    mP

    Prog

    But if Jesus is God, as Christendom believes, then God did carry out the greatest act of love.

    Mp -> Prog:

    Why didnt God just forgive mankind without telling his son to commit suicide ? Are the suicide bombers from 9/11 also committin gthe greatest act of love or just idiots ?

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    mP - there are many old testament scriptures where God said he has wiped and forgotton sins to just stop doing them now.

  • glenster
    glenster

    The idea isn't that God is all love or loved everything about people
    (neither do I) or always wanted to be reconciled with people. I don't know
    that He needed to or not to want a reconciliation with people (or that be-
    cause some people love their pets that all people have to be shown to love
    all animals for it to be possible.)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_man

    Are the suicide bombers from 9/11 also committin gthe greatest act of love
    or just idiots?

    The prerogative is different with God (it's all His to do what He wants with)
    and people (it isn't) something like the prerogative of people over animals.
    (Not only don't all people love all animals, but some of us find some
    delicious.) People killing people, all without God's prerogative, possibly be-
    lieving in a possible God but without proof of God, are killing arbitrarilly
    without the prerogative so by interpersonal ethics are murderers.

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    Just realised I should have typed the heading "Christ's death on the Cross" not "of the cross".

    Prognosser, if Jesus is God and God gave up his life for humanity, then why would God have allowed the issue to start in the first place? Jesus death on the cross shows that God is less concerned about his own vindication and being proven right than his love for his creatures. His love is superlative, it transcends his own need for sanctification and vindication, which the Watchtower Society incorrectly says is the theme of the Bible.

    My point is the cross proves that God viewed his very own life as less important than his love for humankind that he loves. It would mean God had no reason to require thousands of years of time and human independent rule to occur to prove that his name is vindicated and his rule is right. God would never put his own self-importance ahead of his earthly children.

    The cross proves that God's love for humankind is utterly unquestionable, utterly unselfish, to the point of giving up ones own life. Any loving parent would do the same. So if there was some issue raised by Satan that needed time to settle, no more time would be needed after the cross. Why would God not bring an end to the issue there and then at Christ's death? All the issues are settled on the cross. Why wait another 2000 or so years with all its misery and suffering and death for humanity?

    I'm interested in your comment Glenster. I don't believe God needed to reconcile with everyone, and certainly there are some persons he may not want to be reconciled wto, but I'm drawing an analogy between God as our parent and us as God's children, and Jesus' tremendous pity and love for humanity to the extent that he sacrificed his own will, his own desires and life, that he endured the most horrible of deaths to save 'the world'. Any normal loving parent would usually put their child's life ahead of their own, even if they have fallen out with that child and have lost some love for it. Unless the child is a murderer or something and deserves death or severe punishment under the rule of law.

    Furthermore, your corollary that humans to God is the same as animals are to humans is not scriptural. Humans are made in Gods image, we are told in scripture. Animals are not. Would Jesus have died a horrific death in the greatest of torments for the sake of only animals?

  • tec
    tec

    Good points in OP, yadda yadda. Great looking at Christ... to see and to know God.

    Peace,

    tammy

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