Something's been on my mind...

by Vidiot 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Vidiot

  ..., and while I usually contribute in a thread that's already been created, I thought this particular topic might warrant it's own.

  Like many of you, on Friday I was persusing the "Concerned Elder Speaks" thread about higher-ed and the GB's Ross/Rachel relationship with it, and a couple of posts caught my eye:

  Room 215 - "That's it, boys; alienate the remaining elders, drive them to resign and exacerbate the shortage already underway."

  Baltar447 - "It's like they WANT fewer elders and servants."

  I used to think that this was most likely to be a tactical error on the GB's part (as I've said before, it will potentially leave them with a worldwide body of morons), but then I read this post:

  Meeting Junkie no More - "I'm beginning to think this is what all the recent changes have been implemented for - to wake the majority up and have them leave on their own accord. A lot cheaper than having to answer to all those that stick around until the WBTS closes shop, which shouldn't be too long in coming now. A perfect storm is brewing - tax changes in country after country/pedophile scandals/disfellowshipping/human rights abuses etc. Billboard adverts/everything will come spilling out of the closets soon - to the point that remaining Witnesses will start being embarassed to be associated with this religion. If you can get the majority to leave before that pitiful moment, the fallout will be less severe."

  This really got me thinking; is it actually possible that - assuming Junkie and many others are correct and the WTS's death toll is starting to ring - one or more GB2.0 members are actually starting to grasp (at least subconciously) the way the wind is blowing?

  I don't think these guys are stoopid.

  Theories about secret bunker complexes notwithstanding, many of us have already grasped intuitively that the advent of the Information Age has compelled the WTS to batten down the hatches more and more; however, stemming information flow - according to Julian Assange's WikiLeaks agenda - inevitably cripples any authoritarian regime's ability to properly function.

  They've moved upstate into a semi-rural location, they're down to 2 meetings a week, Metatron has reminded us that increasingly marginilized authoritarian groups become increasingly extreme in their actions, Miseryloveselders (I think it was him, anyway) has stressed how much GB2.0 are full-on True Believers (TM), and said GB has been steadily dailing up the submission-to-the-FDS/GB rhetoric and suggesting that weird or inexplicable instructions may be in the pipeline.

  Their predecessors have already demonstrated that they'll write off large blocs of their membership if they feel it's necessary (Malawi). Considering how much they appear to resent 21st Century human society in general, and the fact that it stubbornly refuses to follow their eschatalogical script in particular, Junkie's suggestion, I think, should be seriously considered.

  Not so much because GB2.0 actually suspects that it's going to close up shop - the new HQ is a multimillion dollar investment, after all - but that placing increasingly draconian restrictions and requirements on the R&F will more quickly weed out the fence-sitters, apostate-sympathizers, and generally any other individuals on the fringes who associate, but don't actively support the WTS and its survival, thusly making the selection of figurative or literal WT "ark" candidates that much simpler.

  Or am thinking with my ass/reading too much into it?

  Please post your thoughts.
• 

  cameo-d

  Vidiot....I think you are absolutely correct in your observations.

  I also think that Meeting Junkie No More is astute in his/her observations as well and is right in sync with thoughts I have pondered,too.
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  alanv

  At the moment the society is slowly grinding to a halt in Europe, but the rest of the world of JWs is still seeing increase. While that is happening, the money is still coming in. Certainly if the JWs in other developed countries wake up and leave, then the society will indeed be in serious trouble.

  Here's hoping.
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  Vidiot

  alanv - "At the moment the society is slowly grinding to a halt in Europe, but the rest of the world of JWs is still seeing increase. While that is happening, the money is still coming in."

  Ah, but that increase is primarily in the Third World.

  Which is poor.

  Which means - overall - less donations coming in, not more, regardless of growth in membership.

  A 20th century free-market business model (which the WTS's operations are arguably designed around) requires an influx of constantly increasing revenue simply to stay in place; reduce that flow of revenue, and the model collapses of its own weight; it's no longer sustainable. It's the biggest inherent flaw in that type of business model; the assumption that the resources it consumes are theortically infinite, when obviously, they are not.

  More and more, I'm inclined to view the new WTS compound as an attempt at hermetically sealing the Org against the 21st Century in the event of the rest of the world going to hell in a handbasket - either by their perception or for real. Weird instructions like "Faithful servants of Jehovah are strongly advised to drop what you're doing and make your way to the new facilities upstate NY - loving instructions to follow" aren't farfetched; the framework's been laid for it.
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  cameo-d

  Vidiot: "Weird instructions like "Faithful servants of Jehovah are strongly advised to drop what you're doing and make your way to the new facilities upstate NY - loving instructions to follow" aren't farfetched; the framework's been laid for it."

  I really don't see that happening. If anything, Upstate will be a country club for the big wigs. And if they need people for services---cleaning, cooking, gardening, etc. they will probably bring in some of those "third world recruits" who cannot understand English too well so that they will be able to talk freely and not have the servants understand. Capiche?
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  Vidiot

  I didn't mean to suggest that the vast majority of R&Fers would actually comply with that kind of directive; quite the opposite, actually (back in the day, sure, but as Outlaw once said, most JWs in North America and Europe are pretty soft in comparison to the old-schoolers), and therein lies the rub; the only ones who would faithfully comply - who could comply - would be a some locals, maybe a few socially inept R&Fers with immediate transportation, and the odd JW Third World refugee who managed to make his way overseas.

  Assuming that GB2.0 really is losing the InfoWar (and with a membership turnover rate as high as theirs, it's certainly plausible), they could be approaching the conclusion that the Developed World is quickly becoming, well, a write-off. Like losing the intellectuals, artistic-types, and out-of-the-box thinkers, it would, at its core, simply be the cost of doing business (remember, a few of us have already suggested that - with the exception of Old Man Jaracz - the GB does not view XJWs as a serious threat; they're far more concerned with maintaining internal ideological purity).

  Corporations do that.

  God, what I wouldn't give to hear an intelligence analyst's take on this.
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  GrandmaJones

  I really don't think the organization is about to self-destruct. I never looked at ANY information that I thought even MIGHT contain negative statements about "the truth", and I dressed conservatively, saw only pg13 movies, avoided anything connected with violence, etc.etc.etc. There was really no way the internet influences many JW's.....
• 

  dontplaceliterature

  @GrandmaJones,

  You're right. I would never have considered picking through "apostate" websites before I started becoming "conscious." The only reason I stumbled across this one is because I was searching for a copy of a Kingdom Ministry online that I had lost a few months ago.

  My previous perception of apostates was that they were just bitter axe-grinders and I detest people like that. So, even if I had doubts or reservations about Watchtower doctrine, I certainly would never have gone probing around on the internet for like-minded individuals.

  I would say though, now that I've been here, that this website has fed my anger and frustration from the point of mild discomfort to full-blown disgust. So, I wouldn't write off the "information age" all together. However, I don't see it being the root cause of the implosion of the WTBTS. If anything causes a mass fall-out, I think it will be a major doctrinal change most likely dealing with 1914. Even that is highly unlikely, in my opinion. Its demise will probably be slow and steady as the younger generations refuse to be dedicated to serving the Governing Body.
• 

  Vidiot

  Alright, thanks for the feedback. I'd hoped to get more, but whatever.

  Something I should clarify; one of the the reasons I suggested this scenario is that historically, whenever authoritarian regimes feel their authority is waning - whether it really is waning or even if it isn't, they inevitably adopt a scorched-earth mentality; "if I can't have it, no one can", or perhaps more accurately; "if the WT comes to an end, it's because we decided, not a bunch of apostates". This mentality, in the end, contributes to and, in fact, often accellerates the subsequent fragmentation and/or collapse.

  All indications strongly suggest that the WTS has been in serious siege mode since Old Man Jaracz ran the show, and his successors (official or otherwise) are - by all indications - cut from the same cloth, i.e. archconservative hardline company men. Men like that know and care to know only one way.

  The more people in the developed world who leave, the easier more people still in will find it to leave...resulting in a steadily decreasing flow of revenue from the part of the world that is needed most for its revenue flow. What other ultimate response would there be but scuttling the ship and abandoning the majority of the crew to save the command crew and a few loyalists?

  Grandma Jones - "I really don't think the organization is about to self-destruct. I never looked at ANY information that I thought even MIGHT contain negative statements about "the truth", and I dressed conservatively, saw only pg13 movies, avoided anything connected with violence, etc.etc.etc. There was really no way the internet influences many JW's..."

  I don't know if "self-destruct" is the right term for what I described; maybe "cascade effect", or "accellerated decrepitude" (yes, I love Blade Runner - you should watch it even though it's rated R). Make no mistake, though, the internet - or more accurately, the Information Age - has had an unprecedented impact on the WTS. As a social organism, it is very poorly adapted to survival in this environment.

  Just out of curiosity, how did you come to leave or fade or whatever?
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  NewChapter

  Vidiot,

  My posts are still limited, so I haven't commented here yet, but have been following the thread. It is still very difficult for me to grasp the concept of WT declining. Even though I haven't been to a meeting in at least 2 years, my impression was that it was ever growing. Observations posted here have surprised me, and I'm still digesting them.

  How does an authoritarian back down? Especially a social dominator, (GB)? Well, they just can't. A certain percentage of followers will always be open to reason, and a certain percentage will NEVER be open to reason. The goal is to prevent those open to reason from contaminating the in-betweens.

  I know a woman in her 80's that is part of a religion that reminds me very much of JW. I believe they are an offshoot of the Adventists, which makes sense. Her congregation is oooolllllddd. She is faithful, but armegeddon has not come, no new ones have come in, and the young have left. They rent a tiny space in another church to meet on Saturdays, (their "true" sabbath). They will all die soon. I think this is the only graceful way for an Authoritarian movement to decline. F A D E

  If they want to speed up this process, to hide their shame, then yes, piss off the responsible rank and file. Then you can blame THEM for leaving, because they didn't have faith. The GB is blameless, and they prepare to piss off the next wave. Perhaps tighter controls on birth control.

  I can say, their fear of apostates was truly growing. Admonishments on association, in my opinion, were growing stronger and stricter. I've thought a lot about the decision to no longer annouce DF or Da, and simply say "no longer JW". When I was IN, we had theories---because they never offered an explanation. Theory 1--it was legal. Those that leave may be suing for slander. Theory 2--whoa, the society is REALLY cracking down on wrong doers. THE END IS CLOSE. Now those that may have been softer on the DF than the DA (cuz more of those are apostates) have been corrected.

  But here, I read that it is because they don't want members to realize how many are actually DA. DA used to be sooo very rare when I started, but was becoming more common in the later years. They needed to put a stop to that. It is much better for their egos to push people out---Not so good to have them leave.

  The new understanding on generation will only go so far. Growth will stop. I WOULD NOT want to go back to "the good old days" that WT is so fond of speaking about to prove the system is in decline. Pre civil rights, Pre woman suffrage, Pre many humane measures. Perhaps we lock our doors more often, but lynchings are exceedinly rare. Perhaps more people use drugs, but women can work and support their families and not be abused in the work place. This "good old daze" mentally is so authoritarian it nauseates me. I still can't believe I didn't see it before. If WT didn't put on the front of neutrality, those scary right wingers would grow by millions overnight.

  I hope this was all coherent. Did you see Jesus Camp? I think I may be preparing a paper (I'm back in college) that discusses authoritarians in light of that documentary. I'd love to hear your comments.