..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
I am sorry you are confusing me...
"I have never asserted that all and any suffering tells us anything about god"
"Suffering proves the god of christian theism does not exist. It is a point worth repeating. Please stop trying to change the subject."
How do you reconcile these two statements? Are you saying suffering disproves "the god of the bible" but dosn't necessarily disprove of some other type of God?
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Freemindfade I don't know exactly how to answer that without going way off topic. Let me think about how to answer this correctly :)
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Your problem isn't with God... it is with who wrote the bible. Humans (with inspiration of course) pinned it. They did the best they could to explain and understand as they could but... Human minds are limited and we have greatly grown in knowledge since biblical days.
I believe the bible is truth but it must be understood through the culture and experience of the human co-writers.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Suffering could prove we don't understand God.
Suffering in no way proves if God exists or doesn't.... it is a separate argument.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
"I have never encountered an atheist who was sufficiently facile to make this challenge.
This is another straw man."
Maybe I don't understand your argument... but that is what I am hearing. If we have an all powerful all loving God he would eliminate suffering... There is suffering so therefor no God.
How should I understand this statement then?
"Suffering proves the god of christian theism does not exist. It is a point worth repeating. Please stop trying to change the subject."
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding that neither side is addressing...
Atheists think that if there is an all loving and all powerful God he must prevent suffering. This idea suffers from confirmation bias just as badly as many statements and beliefs Theists make.
Can you prove to me that perfect love must eliminate all suffering... and not only that must do it right this minute? Maybe love and suffering are compatible in some way that we can not fully understand here in our temporal existence.
To say suffering is bad and love is good is to simply just confirm how it feels to experience it. However your feelings on the subject don't create a moral absolute on the subject. Sometimes good things feel bad and bad things feel good. We can't go by how things feel when it comes to judging them.
my wife and i are planning on taking a year off and taking a jeep and a camper through all the 48 contiguous states and alaska and some of canada.. living in florida, i have always had guns and a concealed carry permit.
but researching for our upcoming retirement vacation, it seems to me that i might not be able to legally carry firearms on my upcoming expedition.. it seems every state has different laws and licenses.
what does a camper from florida do when he goes to new york or california?
Something to consider....
Many places have license plate scanners. They will know you have a concealed carry permit. Some places they will pull you over and mess with you just because of the permit. Be careful.
ive had to make statements like this too many times.
communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times.
once again, communities [were harmed] because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no problem getting their hands on a gun.. lets be clear: at some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.
TD you make a GREAT point!
The entire purpose of the constitution is to limit the power of government. You could consider every one of the bill of rights or any provision in the constitution as being anti federal government.
