this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Lilacs,
Actually Iv been up for a while. I just got to the computer a little late. I had a great time with Danny and Marilyn last night. Then I got on the chat room and played for a while. This place can chew up a lot of time in a day but I think it's well worth it. There are a lot of great people here.
Take care and please set the alarm for me. I tend to sleep in way too much on Sunday mornings. I have a lot of years of waking up early on Sundays to make up for.
Dave
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Tim,
Again I see where you are coming from and again I see that a more detailed explanation is in order. I will address just one of your comments in what will be a little bit of a long explanation by telling you a true story. I will address your comment on "certain level of acceptable conduct that you expect from a friend."
This thought is pretty much a universal one when someone needs to put certain people into certain categories. In high school we use to call them "clicks." Whom ever seemed to be the most like we were and had the same goals and interests we could label as our friends. A lot of times it was more important to some to judge others by who they called friends than by who the individual was in themselves.
In high school I was quite disturbed by this process and refused to participate in it. Even though I had some social limitations caused by my mostly unknown religious status I was quite popular. I assigned no absolute following to any one group. This was easy because I was quite the oddity. I was a great athlete so the jocks and so called "cool crowd" considered me a part of them. I also could keep up with the best of them in the hardest of classes so the so called "brains" considered me a part of them. I was also a quite accomplished artist and took art classes above my grade level. This made me an accepted member of the "artsy fartsy" crowed. I also had a job after school which allowed me to purchase a 1965 chevy SS which in turn gave me an acceptable status with all the "gear heads." I was also accepted and liked by the Lodies, Geeks, Pencil necks cheer leaders and pig fuckers (Future Farmers of America). All this assumed popularity while still trying to hide the fact that I was stuck in the JW religion.
Two of my very good friends that I have today are two guys I went to high school with. That was almost 30 years ago and they are still close friends of mine. With all this widespread popularity and acceptance in each and every little click in school I had the great opportunity as a teenager to be exposed to many different concepts of what is important in life and learn that like mindedness and acceptable levels of qualitative friendships are very objective. Who one person saw as unacceptable another one saw as perfection.
Again, it is all comes from individuals perspective based on their own mindset that was usually constructed by their perception of themselves. I wasn't concerned with what anyone that I called a friend thought of someone else I considered a friend. Some of the jocks were quite beside themselves when I would stop and have a conversation with someone they might have considered a "lower class" of individual. If something was said to me I would simply tell them some good points about the person I had just talked to and they could accept it nor not, I didn't care.
This little perspective I had on life and people showed up as a little warm and fuzzy feeling at my 20th high school reunion. As people were coming in there were questionable looks shooting all over the room and statements of "who is that." To my surprise I knew everyone and everyone was happy to see me. The greatest moment was when Cathleen Parish walked up to me and introduced me to her husband. Cathleen was the "Poor chick" that wore Goodwill clothes and was called a slut behind her back. She was not what you would call real attractive and she had a pretty bitter attitude about life because of the cruelty that was thrust upon her. I treated Cathleen the same as I treated everyone else. With kindness and understanding. When she brought her husband up and introduced me to him she told him that I was they guy she had told him about so many times "the good guy." I looked at her with a little surprise and asked her what she meant. She told him that while everyone was judging her and saying cruel things to her that I always treated her with respect and kindness. She told him that she was very bitter and said many mean things to other people because she was always on the defensive and was ashamed about her perceived "trailer trash" reputation. She said that my kindness to her and my uncaring attitude on whether I was seen talking to her kept her hopes up while in school.
She did drugs to escape her pain and I knew and I understood. She shoplifted cloths just so that she might have just one piece of clothing that would be looked at as a little fashionable. I also knew this and understood. I was asked by one of the cheerleader girls why I would talk to a trashy dope smoking thief like Cathleen and I told her that in reality she was a really nice person and if everyone would get off her back and quit being so damn judgmental they might see that too.
Cathleen remember that little conversation even though I had forgotten about it. Right there in front of her husband she gave me a big hug and a kiss on the cheek. She said thank you. Then her husband said thank you and shook my hand again. After that, they invited me to come and stay at their hotel up on Mt. Hood any time I wanted, I had a free room.
If you are concerned about being "judged by the company you keep" you might want to look at those who you feel are judging you just as you would those who are being judged. You can be quick to judge and make things in your life simple and easy. Or you can take the time to find out as much as you can about a person and then come to a conclusion. It's all in how much you care to look into things. There are a few people in this world I don't like. But I can honestly say I have good reason and full understanding of why I feel that way. If you are going to judge Alan purely by his defensive and sometimes childish responses to things he has said on this board and you don't completely understand the full context of, go right ahead. The way he is feeling right now I'm sure he couldn't care less. I am not dealing with things pertaining to the subject matter on this board to even the slightest depths that Alan is so I can be a lot more open minded than he is. This is where I choose to be and he is where he chooses to be. I do understand why he says the things he says and I do understand why you react to his comments. Good, bad, or indifferent none of us can judge without having looked at every angel. I'll say it again, no matter what anyone says about Alan will change how I feel about the man at all. I know him a lot better than most people on this board. Until each and every one of you take the time I have to get to know him you will not be able to completely understand why I say that.
Here is something to think about. What your color spectrum perceives as "true colors" is be based on where you are standing in the light. Others may see different colors because they are standing in a different place than you are. Just because someone is perceived to be one way or another because of something they have said or an attitude they seem to have doesn't mean they are always that way or they may have a temporary reason for being that way. Until you have examined all perspectives of another person you cannot be an authority on what their "true colors" really are. You can come to any conclusion in any time frame that you like. If you don't care enough to examine all sides of the spectrum you will not be able to fully appreciate it's real beauty. Take what you want and move on. It's all in the amount of time you wish to spend looking.
In conclusion to this little example of acceptable levels of conduct among your friends, knock yourself out and have fun with the friends you have prescreen and have passed your test of acceptability. Until you walked a mile in someone else's shoes don't bitch about them limping. That is a thought not only for you but for my good friend Alan and anyone else who has problems with others on this board. Using this comment will take away a little fun but it will make playing nice a little easier. Again, I appreciate your comments and I think they are good ones.
I'll end this little lecture by repeating my favorite quote that I ended my first post with.
You can always judge the character of a person by the way they treat others who can do noting for them at all.
-Author unknown
Dave
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Well, It's nice to wake up in the morning after a fun party and see that there is still a big mess to clean up.
First I would like to say I had a great time last night. It's been a long time since I could enjoy myself like that.
As far as Alan waking up and starting to do what he does so well I can't do much about that. I wish he would tone things down a bit but I am neither his father or his keeper. I also have not discussed any of this with him so I do not understand he present mindset in regard to the whole mess.
Often on this board these little wars break out and peoples feelings get hurt. When someone comes in and tries to calm the people down they are turned on and told that they "don't know the whole story." I tried to do this with Alan and give a few of you a little insight on what makes the man tick. I also tried to briefly explain why he may react in the way he does at times. You all can take it or leave it. I did not make "excuses" for Alan I only tried to explain an insight I have about a very good friend.
Danny,
I'm sorry you feel the way you do but I do understand. None of this changes my opinion about you or will it in the feature. It doesn't change my feelings about Alan either. I personally think these little wars are destructive in content and futile in purpose. But that's just me, I'm not as pissed off about the whole overshadowing context of this board when it comes to things like this as many others are. I will avoid the subject of Alan when talking with you, it's that simple. I guess I am just a lot more understanding and a lot more tolerant of certain things then most. Thanks for the party last night, I had a great time, we need to do that again.
Tim,
I understand what you are trying to say, you are correct in your statement that you don't know me. If you would like to box me up and put an easy to read label on top of my head so you can save time by using presumed conclusions about me you go right ahead. It doesn't effect me in the slightest. Even though people hope to have the respect of others it is impossible to gain that respect from everyone. Worrying about whether you have everyone's respect will drive you nuts and can only develop into a very negative ego game. I'm not into that.
Your conclusion that I only care about people I have gotten drunk with is a petty comment but I do understand where you are coming from by making it. I am not Alan, I am his friend and I always will be. Do not try and take out your frustrations with him by saying things that try to put me in a bad light. Trying to put me on the shelf under the "drinking problem" category might make you feel a little superior but the only effect that kind of comment will have is an effect on you, it doesn't phase me. The reason is, I know better and so do all the people who really know me.
I can certainly see your frustration with Alan. He has a way of saying things that can be very hurtful to people. I have found in life that those who say the most hurtful things are usually the ones who are hurting the most. Hurting is not a sign of weakness but only a state of mind. That hurting state of mind causes a person to react differently than they would in a non hurting or pain free state of mind. If you have never in your life said something that you regret because you were hurting or upset then you are a much better man than I, because I have and so has my good friend Alen.
The key here is understanding. Not condoning or accusing but understanding. Most people need to give themselves rules to follow after quickly coming to a conclusion that is easy to make based upon surface information gathered. People will take hours and months of tender loving care and understanding to grow a plant on their window box but will take only a few minutes in caring and trying to understand another human being. This has always amazed me. I am not a stupid man, I know the difference between Osama Bin Laden, the governing body and Alan Fauerbacher. If you would like to put them all on the same mental shelf in your mind that is up to you. That's fairy quick and easy to do and you won't get your hands all dirty by trying to take the time to make a finer definition of possible similarities and difference in your mind. It's kind of an instant breakfast approach on making friends and categorizing people.
I'm sure you are a good person and you are only trying to come to the defense of those who Alan has had a few unkind words with. He is doing nothing more than you are, you two are just doing it for what you both see as two different teams. Several times there has been attempts to divide and categorize people on this board based on who they know and how long they have known them. This has cause many to come to the defense of their professed team member whether the player is right or wrong. I have found myself being caught up in this game and had to sit back and reevaluate my reason for coming to this board and make some adjustments before I came back and started posting again. I was off for several months. I am going through a tough time in my life right now and I saw that my current mental state was not conducive to projecting my real thoughts on things but rather influenced by my problems and frustrations. Now things are beginning to look up for me and I can better participate here with a clearer mind and more of an objective perspective on what is going on.
If you really want to know Alan or if you care enough to know, read a little between the lines and see if you can't see his frustration making comments that are based on mostly a defensive mindset. I see it all the time, the man isn't perfect. I look
at Alan strong points and I know more about things he is going through then most. I come from a different perspective than most and can be more understanding of his short comings. I would say the same to Alan and I have. I have a great respect for him and I know he has the same for me. I tell him what I think about a person or a subject and many times he doesn't agree with me. That's life and that's fine by me. I still love the man like a brother and I am also close to his family. Does that make it right for him to say nasty things to people? No, not in my estimation. But it isn't going to effect my friendship with him for a second. Nor is his dislike for anyone else on this board that I consider a friend. Danny and I have become friends and I hope it will stay that way. If he choose to dislike Alan I can certainly understand and it doesn't effect my friendship with him.
Alan may actually be a little upset with me right now but if he is he won't stay that way very long, we are too good of friends for that. This whole mess started when I read the thread where he and Uncle Bruce were going back and forth. I do not know Uncle Bruce nor have I posed in response to him. I saw that he was trying to bring things out in a way that was half humorous and half serious with Alan. I don't know the history between the men and I don't care. Alan feels he had a reason to say what he did and that is his business, not mine. I saw UB trying to make an effort to communicate with Alen on a adult and understanding manner. Alan seems to have missed the spirit of UB's comments and only concentrated on the words that he said. I saw it different from Alan but again, we are different people and see things at a different level of comprehension, this again has a lot to do with perspective based on different states of mind. Alan's inability to see the spirit of UB's post was probably based on past confrontations. I don't know and as I said, I don't care. I thought UB did a good job.
Now, you can come to the conclusions that you want. If you do not have any respect for me because Alan is my friend then so be it. Will that change my thinking about who you might be as a person? Not for a second. I don't know you well enough to have a good or bad thought about you either way.
This is who I am, this is how I think. You can do as you please and think what you want with the above information. I do appreciate your thoughts and I do understand why you have them. The rest is up to you.
Dave
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Dan my man,
There are credentials and there are credentials. Yours like Alan's, Julie's, Marilyn's, and her hubby David (Mr. God) are all that interest me. There is a Ph.D. in friendship and common respect and admiration among friends. You have this with me, beyond that, every thing else it just paperwork.
I hope to hell Alan read this. If not, I will call him tomorrow and ask him too. I know as much as I love my kid's, I swear we will all meet in person someday, and we will all be great friends. I will consider it an honor to meet you and your wife face to face. I know I can say that about my friends also, they will see you as I do.
I need to hit the sack, good night to all, and to all a good night.
Dave
PS: Hey, I'm sleeping alone here, where is the sympathy, where is the meaningless love? Where is the passion for a man with such a tender heart? Damn, this is good stuff, I need to write it down!
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
<<Wish I could join you in a drink!!! I'm off it. Life is hardly worth living these days! I think I preferred living under the threat of Armegeddon rather than the threat of the passage of time on our frail bodies.>>
Marilyn, What the hell does this mean? What is going on? Is this something I don't know about or are you just doing the "I'm old thing"?
What is going on?
Dave
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Danny, my cactus drinking friend. Show a little respect to this vision of an older woman (well older than me). She is married to a God! You think I'm cool, you don't know cool until you have met her hubby. His name is David, not Dave in the cool sense like me, but David. He too is a friend of Alan's. I met my lord and his lovely wife at Alan and Julie's Wedding reception. (it wasn't really a reception, more like a party at their hose, but what the hell, it was fun). I told you I know cool people. The only problem with this whole concept is that Alan likes Kent. That can throw a whole can of worms into my theory of friendship by association. What the hell, I don't have to kiss they guy!
Go to bed Damn it it! Jut cuz your old and you can no longer......well.....you know, doesn't mean you can't get a good nights sleep. I'm a lot younger than you so I'm going to stay on line a little longer and play with the fluffmongers.
Go to sleep damn it!
Dave
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Marilyn,
My older but still captivatingly attractive friend from down under. How can you compare any man on a level of both intelligence and sense of humor when you are married to the man I not only consider my idol but a God in his own right? Simply stated, your main squeeze is my mentor, my idol, my god. Yes, at times I can be humorous (a thing I learned from surfing want ads for guys on the Internet, chicks like that it seems) but has a natural intellect ta'boot. (That means all the same in American.)
It is so good to hear from you! I'll bet you got a big kick out of reading the stuff about Julie and Abe. Remember the beach trip, ...of course you do that is where I met my hero, your husband. How is the old SOB? Is he still In Hong Kong? Shit, we need another damn wedding to all hook up again. It' as plain as hell it isn't going to be me, so maybe I should take this crush between Julie and Abe a little more seriously. Id love to see you and my lord again.
Please tell me he hears my prayers. I told Zeus to kiss my ass once I met David. I'm big into Greek Mythology so I hope he understand the sacrifice I made here. Are you still as hot of an older woman that you were? That was a stupid question, of course you are, why else would a God stay with you? I can be so stupid at times.
That does it, I have to find a way to send Abe off to Colorado to get the sole mate thing started. Imagine having Alan and Julie as inlaws........................................................................................(a few minutes have just past) I love Abe but......oh shit, ya only live once, let the sparks rekindle! Anything to get the wild bunch back together. You know I owe all that I am to your hubby. How is my.........I was drunk when I realized all this wasen't I?. Damn I need a life.
Well, what ever, big big hug you major babe. Tell my hero David I said hi. As they say in the old song, someday. We'll be together.
Your buddy and possibly illegitimate son,
Dave
PS, It's Abes 19th birthday today, send him a hello and I will pass it on. Can you believe that, the little kid is almost a man now. Damn, I just felt old. What the hell, I am old!
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Danny, now I know why I like you so much, it isn't you, it's your lovely wife. She knew you weren't only a pig, but a dog all rolled into one. Now, I'm convinced that your wife and Alan's wife would make great friends, just as you and he would be.
I have a new goal in life. My first is to get my son back and enjoy the last bit of time until he goes off on his own. The second is to get you, me, and Alan together. With friends like you two, there isn't much else to describe the beauty of life. Sleep well my friend.
Dave.
PS: How many scotches have you had? Iv had five, can ya tell? You know, it's the guy hugging thing, you can only do it if you've had a few to many or if your team has won the championship. We are all pigs!
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Ven, when you have spent as much time with a couple as I have with Alan and Julie you just hear things. I mean really hear things! I never pictured Alan as a god but.....shit, this is how I lost my last married friends. I really really really need to go to bed!
Dave
PS, Danny, I repeat, your a pig! Make sure and tell the wife I said hello. God knows she needs to hear something positive in her life. After all, she's married to a guy who calls himself Danny Bear. Where the hell is Joelbear when you need him. Damn it, I didn't mean it that way, oh shit, never mind.
this is the internet, simply put, none of you know anymore about who the other really is or should judge them by the lack of emotional smiley faces in their sentence structure.. first to danny,.
we have spoken on the phone and exchanged a few emails and i consider you a good friend.
you are much like alan in many ways and in others very different.
Mango,
You "way too young in any accepted reality love of my life" I am not painting. I am concentrating on getting a job so that Abe (my son) and I can get a place together again. Once that is accomplished I will get my paints and brushes together and stun the art world. You will be one of the first to see what I have come up with. Until then check out this 3d computer stuff I have just done http://sumagroup.com/3d As they say, you can never really be a great artist until you have experienced real pain. I'm working on that part right now and if I can stop laughing so much I just might get to that point. Depression is just another art form I haven't seemed to come to as of yet, but I'm trying. Look at my friends, if that isn't enough to be depressed about, what is?
Dave
