Seeker

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Posts by Seeker

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  7

  A Message for You Know

  by troubled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i read your message, as well as the messages from the others.

  i will give all of the comments i received thoughtful and prayerful consideration.

  including yours.. however, i think maybe you didn't read my postings carefully enough before responding.

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  Seeker

  Also, if I am doing the wrong thing by posting here (listening to "apostates"), I will suffer the consequences.

  And so would You Know, wouldn't you agree, troubled?

  You Know is a strange bird, indeed. Here is how he has responded to your questions in the past, over the years he has been posting with us online: He is anointed, and he feels he is an exception to the WTS rules about being online with us. Furthermore, he is not "associating" with us, but announcing things to us. However, he will suggest you stay away, for you are unsteady at this time, although he can take it.

  What he won't tell you, although he has told us several times over the years, is that he himself disagrees with several WTS teachings, and has publicly preached a different message at times. He expects calamity to befall the WTS 'any day now', and ridicules those who follow every word from the GB as if it comes from God.

  As I said, he's a strange bird. Everything I've said above is what he's told us over the years.

  You, troubled, have indeed noticed a hypocritical stand taken by the Society: We are supposed to be like the Beroeans, except when it comes to the WTS teachings. Then we are just supposed to accept it, no questions asked.
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  6

  Higher JW Hierarchy

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alex was asking about how the org is structured.

  i could detail the lower levels but got lost around do and bethel elder onwards.

  can anyone who knows fill in some more, please?.

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  Seeker

  Can you guys fit Bethel Elders into the picture. I have heard they outrank Cong Elders massively. Is this right?

  Good point. I wouldn't say "massively," but yes, they do outrank regular elders in some respects.
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  61

  Perfection and the Penis

  by crossroads in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did jesus get circumcised or not?

  quote from mark(thats me) "i believe woman was the .

  last and greatest creation" of course i have my own.

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  Seeker

  I feel much shame,

  Please don't. You should not feel ashamed, for you did what almost all mothers do in this country, and what most doctors recommend. How were you to know otherwise?

  Now that we have the Web, and research is so easy, this question is becoming murkier, and other points of view are being heard. It's not as clear-cut a decision as it used to be.

  I'm not upset at any parent who did this to a child. I'm merely trying to present another point-of-view, so that lurking parents who may someday face this decision will see that not 'everyone does it', and that there are reasons why a parent might not want to do it.
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  61

  Perfection and the Penis

  by crossroads in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did jesus get circumcised or not?

  quote from mark(thats me) "i believe woman was the .

  last and greatest creation" of course i have my own.

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  Seeker

  If circumcision is now merely a custom and a preference, there is little use for it. The custom part is absurd. Why do something merely because other people do it? That is JW thinking, and we have moved beyond that. Who cares what other people do? Growing up, in locker rooms, there were kids who were circumcised and those who weren't. It never seemed to be a big deal to anyone, other than the same natural curiosity about our navels and who had 'innies' and who had 'outies.' If some kids are more cruel that this, still what is the point? Do we cower in fear over opinion? Must we conform to societal norms, even if it makes little sense to do it?

  As for preference, that is the parent's preference, not the child's. Fortunately, this form of mutilation has little impact on a man's life, and the vast majority of men who were circumcised have no problem with it or even prefer it. The fact remains that it was done to them, by someone else. Why not just use electrolysis on their faces at the same time? After all, most men don't wear beards, and it's a pain to have to shave every day, and you can get infections from shaving and irritate the skin, and some women get turned off when kissing a man with a beard, etc...

  Ah...but it's not a custom to remove the hair on a man's face, but it is a custom to remove part of his penis. And we certainly don't want to change customs.
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  61

  Perfection and the Penis

  by crossroads in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did jesus get circumcised or not?

  quote from mark(thats me) "i believe woman was the .

  last and greatest creation" of course i have my own.

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  Seeker

  I certainly can't argue with your father's experience, but I have read other anecdotes of men who have done the same and they claim a distinct difference. I have read of cases where men sought to have the foreskin surgically reattached as a result. Clearly it must make a difference to some men, even if it may not be universal.

  My point is that I can see no reason to do it now to a baby. If they want to get it done later in life, that's their choice. But to take that choice from them before they have any say seems odd. And it's hardly universal. Other than Jewish and Moslem peoples, it's pretty much America (Canada too?) where you find men routinely circumcised. Certainly throughout Europe men are almost universally uncircumcised, and the women view that as the norm, and think a circumcised man looks odd.

  It's just a custom, nothing more. Take away the custom, and nobdoy, and I mean nobody would think to do such a thing to a baby. It's very counterintuitive. And as I said, it's no problem at all to keep yourself clean, so if an uncircumcised man isn't keeping his penis clean, he just isn't trying.
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  61

  Perfection and the Penis

  by crossroads in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did jesus get circumcised or not?

  quote from mark(thats me) "i believe woman was the .

  last and greatest creation" of course i have my own.

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  Seeker

  It's a cleanliness issue.

  Only if the husband is too stupid or too lazy to keep his penis clean. It ain't hard.

  There are lots of statistics out there, but one I can tell you is that women whose partners are uncircumcised have a higher incidence of cervical cancer. Gee. I wonder why??

  No doubt the foreskin causes cervical cancer...(end of sarcasm)

  I have three sons, and several grandsons. No one is complaining about being circumcised.

  As if they would know the difference. It's too late for them. Besides, why on earth would you approach your mother or grandmother with complaints about your penis?

  I just fail to see what the big deal is.

  It's an operation that is performed on a person who is not able to decide what they want for themselves, for dubious reasons that rarely apply to modern humanity.

  Circumcision doesn't limit sexual feeling

  Yes, it does.

  , so again, I have to say the comparison to what is done to some women does not apply.

  It is quite clearly not even close to as severe a thing as female circumcision, which is truly barbaric. But it does change the sensitivity of the head of the penis, reducing the feeling a man can have. He can still orgasm, obviously, but it has made a change.
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  61

  Perfection and the Penis

  by crossroads in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did jesus get circumcised or not?

  quote from mark(thats me) "i believe woman was the .

  last and greatest creation" of course i have my own.

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  Seeker

  I have spoken to many women who say, "OH I would NEVER have sex with an uncircumcised man."

  Wow, really? I would never have anything to do with such close-minded, dogmatic women.
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  11

  The dishonesty of a JW poster

  by Seeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the "what's wrong w/jw's" thread, godrules is trying to defend the wts.

  when godrules asked for "facts" that show jws are wrong, among the respondants was alanf.

  alanf linked to his essay showing the dishonest way the creation book quotes evolutionists.

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  Seeker

  Once again, this is just your opinion. You assume that I did not read Alan's essay. You are incorrect. I received an email with that url about a week ago and read it.

  Excellent. That did occur to me and I should have listed it as a possibility. I am glad to hear you actually read it.

  Again, to me, it was only a his review of the book.

  Not, it wasn't a review. It was an examination of misquotations, which is dishonesty. Go ahead, take one of those quote examples from the essay, and show us how it is merely AlanF's opinion. You won't be able to, for this is a black-and-white issue. The WTS lied.

  The "Creation" book is succesful in proving one thing, everything around us proves that there is an intelligent creator behind it.

  It fails spectacularly at that. Anyone who knows anything about what evolution actually teaches, will see what is in that book as laughable. Therefore, the book is only useful in those who already believe evolution and know nothing about it.
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  6

  Higher JW Hierarchy

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alex was asking about how the org is structured.

  i could detail the lower levels but got lost around do and bethel elder onwards.

  can anyone who knows fill in some more, please?.

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  Seeker

  Just off the top of my head, so feel free to add corrections and additions:

  New corporatation officers, including President Don Adams.
  GB
  Committees and sub-committees of the GB and other heavies.
  Country committees (outside the U.S.)
  Zone overseers
  District overseers
  Circuit overseers
  Substitute circuit overseers
  City overseers
  Elders
  M.S.
  Male pioneers
  Brothers
  Female pioneers
  Sisters
  Children
  Irregulars publishers
  Inactives
  Unbelieving mates
  Worldly people
  Opposing unbeliving mates
  Disfellowshipped
  Disassociated
  Apostates
  Evil Slave class

  A lot of those end ones are not official, just in general how the average JW will tend to view those ones, from more favorably to less favorably.
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  11

  The dishonesty of a JW poster

  by Seeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the "what's wrong w/jw's" thread, godrules is trying to defend the wts.

  when godrules asked for "facts" that show jws are wrong, among the respondants was alanf.

  alanf linked to his essay showing the dishonest way the creation book quotes evolutionists.

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  Seeker

  In the "What's wrong w/JW's" thread, GodRules is trying to defend the WTS. When GodRules asked for "facts" that show JWs are wrong, among the respondants was AlanF. AlanF linked to his essay showing the dishonest way the Creation book quotes evolutionists. A mere ten minutes later, GodRules replied:

  "AlanF: Your opinions on the book "Creation" is just that, you opinions. "

  GodRules could not have read AlanF's essay in ten minutes. Either it was skimmed, or it was ignored and responded to in ignorance. Either way, we see that GodRules is not interested in facts at all. What AlanF wrote has nothing to do with opinions, but facts that you or I can look up in a library (I know, I did just that to verify what AlanF wrote). The WTS has misquoted sources, and you can prove it to yourself by checking the original quotes. It is dishonest, and they have been told it is dishonest, and people in the field who have seen this book have said it is dishonest.

  GodRules doesn't care, preferring to hand-wave it all away by pretending it's a matter of opinion. The WTS doesn't care either, preferring to use even dishonest methods in order to fight evolution. JWs hide behind dishonesty.

  They cannot be the right religion, for the right religion does not tell lies nor shows a disregard for truth.