Posts by konceptual99

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

konceptual99

Firstly I didn't agree to a plan.

Secondly my point is not about infants. It's about the illogical position you've taken to explain away the endless suffering that takes place to all humankind (supposedly all God's children), suffering that you would not permit a child of yours to endure for even a small amount of time, let alone countless lifetimes.

Even if one was to accept, for the sake of argument, the issue of universal sovereignty then there is still no logical answer as to why God keeps going and going and going with his game of billy big bollocks with Satan.

I sucked the illogical side up for years and years. Since waking up I've not heard anything even remotely logical to explain this mad situation the Bible creates.

12

fromBarbara Anderson/charities commission child abuse inquiry UK

by zeb in

jehovah’s witnesses “child safeguarding policy” (great britain, ireland, uk) – 2017. analysis of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom and the republic of ireland [2017].

by barbara anderson.

2013’s “watch tower bible and tract society of britain and congregations of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom and ireland child safeguarding policy” (wtb&ts of britain’s csp) document was considered to be the official watch tower policy until the release on january 1 of the 2017 “child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom, etc.,” (csp of jws in the uk).”.

konceptual99

Also, I've just noted that a known sexual abuser may not have a position of trust or responsibility but the restriction on having "privileges" has been removed. These include things like pioneering, volunteer work at events and so on.

If anything this new statement is even more open to someone slipping the through the net than before.

How is it that the WTS is able to produce something that once again actually says nothing of substance and clarity?

12

fromBarbara Anderson/charities commission child abuse inquiry UK

by zeb in

jehovah’s witnesses “child safeguarding policy” (great britain, ireland, uk) – 2017. analysis of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom and the republic of ireland [2017].

by barbara anderson.

2013’s “watch tower bible and tract society of britain and congregations of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom and ireland child safeguarding policy” (wtb&ts of britain’s csp) document was considered to be the official watch tower policy until the release on january 1 of the 2017 “child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom, etc.,” (csp of jws in the uk).”.

konceptual99

Statement #16 (which was #17 in the old 2013 Policy) has been completely rewritten. It reads: “A person who has engaged in child sexual abuse does not qualify to receive any privileges or to serve in a position of trust or responsibility in the congregation for many years, if ever.”

The 2013 Policy Statement #17 doesn’t state “if ever” and is a bit different: “A person known to have abused a child in the past, and who continues to pose a risk to children or is not irreprehensible, does not qualify [underline mine] to serve in a position of trust or responsibility in the congregation.-1 Timothy 3:1-7, 10; Titus 1:7.”

Interesting pick up Barbara. On the face of it, it would seem that the WTS has changed the policy so that an abuse never can serve in a position of responsibility but in fact there is still an opening. Now there is a qualification that the prohibition is only applied to those known abusers who continue to pose a risk or are not irreprehensible.

Who decides the risk posed by a known abuser? Who is qualified or authorised to determine this? I suspect an arbitrary ruling by WT Legal will be the order of the day rather than any professional or secular assessment.

So Witnesses here in the UK - there is still every chance that someone with a proven history of child sexual abuse could end up being an elder or MS in your congregation and you will not have any knowledge of it at all.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

konceptual99

CS - So when a father abuses his child is this permissible and acceptable either because the father has an absolute right to do as he pleases with his child or that Jehovah has the right to allow any amount of suffering to the child?

This argument that somehow the carrot of a future everlasting existence mitigates all the pain, suffering and premature death present in the current one is one of the most sick and illogical examples of cognitive dissonance that we bought into as Witnesses.

How can behaviour that sickens me as a father be continually and willingly tolerated by a God that has the power to put a stop to it? How much death, pain and suffering has to be permitted before it proves Satan a liar? Exactly how much of this shit do the innocents have to endure before God is happy that he has won the argument?

32

AUSTRALIA - Petition to Cancel the Charity Status of Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses

by jwleaks in

a petition has been launched in australia to coincide with the child abuse royal commission's adverse findings against watchtower and jehovah's witnesses.

the petition is to the australian charities and not-for-profit commission to cancel their charity status.. https://www.change.org/p/australian-charities-and-not-for-profit-commission-acnc-cancel-the-watchtower-bible-and-tract-society-s-charity-status.

[quote].

konceptual99

Cleaning at the KH, such as after a meeting, is not the same as working on a construction site. A construction site is governed by a series of laws which include a hierachy of liability.

Quite. I am just trying to clarify my understanding of what is covered by the child slavery bullet point. If the WTS in AU has in the relatively recent past allowed U16 onto building sites or continues to do so now then I understand the point of having it on the petition.

If they do allow u16s onto sites then I would be surprised as this has not been allowed on WT sites, including KH builds, in the UK and US for many years.

Having said that, I know that even though U16s have been banned from JW sites here in the UK for years, it's only in the relatively recent past that they have introduced H&S requirements approaching typical commercial sites such as full PPE etc. Even now you don't need to have a CSCS card that would need to work on a commercial site, showing you have specific H&S training or specialist training in things like scaffolding or plant usage.

32

AUSTRALIA - Petition to Cancel the Charity Status of Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses

by jwleaks in

a petition has been launched in australia to coincide with the child abuse royal commission's adverse findings against watchtower and jehovah's witnesses.

the petition is to the australian charities and not-for-profit commission to cancel their charity status.. https://www.change.org/p/australian-charities-and-not-for-profit-commission-acnc-cancel-the-watchtower-bible-and-tract-society-s-charity-status.

[quote].

konceptual99

So are you saying that if a child does some cleaning at the KH under the supervision of their parents this is legally child slave labour under AU law?

It's certainly the case that under 16s did get involved in KH projects in the 80s in the UK but I know it was not allowed at AH construction level even then. They enforced an under 16 rule pretty quickly in the QB days in the 80s and over the past years the processes and procedures for getting onto a site have been gradually made more and more rigorous to the point that there is no way kids can be involved even in a casual way.

I know this similar practice is followed in the States, Europe and certainly on any large build worldwide so I'd be surprised if similar processes were not in force in Australia.

On top of this under 16s and those not "approved" have not been able to be involved with most aspects of assembly related volunteer work for a long, long time now, the only exception being cleaning that I can think of where kids helping their parents is still allowed (as far as I know).

I understand the legal ramifications of what you are saying but do you think that current practices within the WTS can be classed as child slave labour?

32

AUSTRALIA - Petition to Cancel the Charity Status of Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses

by jwleaks in

a petition has been launched in australia to coincide with the child abuse royal commission's adverse findings against watchtower and jehovah's witnesses.

the petition is to the australian charities and not-for-profit commission to cancel their charity status.. https://www.change.org/p/australian-charities-and-not-for-profit-commission-acnc-cancel-the-watchtower-bible-and-tract-society-s-charity-status.

[quote].

konceptual99

Very interested to see where this goes. Overall it's well structured but I am not sure where the child slave labour element comes in. It used to be the case that children were regularly included in volunteer work in construction and food prep at assemblies but I would be surprised if Australia is any different to the UK, US and (AFAIK) Europe in only allowing those over 16 onto sites along with the fact there is no organised food prep any more except for some schools - which kids would rarely if ever be involved in.

I can recall anything in print which encourages the forcible inclusion of children in construction, food or other voluntary activities. Of course some kids are made to do some things like hall cleaning and most have to go on the ministry but I think you'd be hard pressed to count that as child slavery.

Sadly I think that bit undermines the rest of the genuinely strong arguments in the petition.

80

Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's

by Deaconblues1914 in

in reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.

society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.

jehovah has indeed blessed us.

konceptual99

Now you've gone too far!

Er... no ;)

80

Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's

by Deaconblues1914 in

in reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.

society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.

jehovah has indeed blessed us.

konceptual99

P.S. I know I am a bit late to the party but just feeling a bit spiky myself

80

Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's

by Deaconblues1914 in

in reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.

society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.

jehovah has indeed blessed us.

konceptual99

Deaconblues1914. Here's a couple of ideas. Feck off to JWTalk and tell them you've been posting on this site. See how far you get. Or.. put your hand up at the meeting tomorrow and spout on about how you've been setting these apostates straight on jehovahs-witnesses.com. You'll be in the back room within 10 seconds of the meeting ending.

Oh, and Deacon Blue were, and always will be, a pile of shite.