Posts by konceptual99

29

Is It Time to regroup?

by John Aquila in

how much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?

.

right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.

konceptual99

The (k)GB already knew this was going to happen, which is why in the July broadcast Lett said it was all apostate driven lies. It was said preemptively to attack the integrity of the royal commission hearing. I hope they use Lett's soundbite in the hearings next week.

Sure they knew this was happening. I am not convinced they had any idea the Commission would make all the witnesses so far look like such a bunch of utterly clueless and spineless chumps.

The real kicker is that not that much materially has changed. Sure the turd has been polished over the years but there is a hell of a lot that remains:

accused facing the accuser
male only questionings with no supporter or advocate for the victim
two witnesses before any JC action can be taken
no positive, pro-active support for, let alone unilateral mandatory, reporting
possibility of abusers being appointed to positions of privilege possibility of an abuser being in a congregation with no or limited knowledge by members of the congregation
possibility of a victim being, even unintentionally, influenced not to go to the authorities or being concerned about slander should they speak out
elders being unable to act on conscience but rather having to defer to Bethel at all stages

So much of what contributed to piss poor handling of cases 20, 30, 40 years ago has not really changed. The usual course of action would be to ride it out but I have a suspicion that there will be some people giving the GB advice to the effect of doing some things voluntarily asap rather than having it forced on them.

The GB does not need precedents for legal action and costly payouts but it also needs to nip this in the bud and prevent other countries grabbing them by the balls. Too much of this and the next question to be asked will be about tax status, charitable status and community good.

In the meantime I bet they are moving funds around legal entities like there's no tomorrow in an effort to plead poverty just in case the litigation balloon goes up.

29

Is It Time to regroup?

by John Aquila in

how much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?

.

right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.

konceptual99

Just thought as well... what are the chances of the Bethel heavies turning up for their testimony next week with some policy changes in hand?

29

Is It Time to regroup?

by John Aquila in

how much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?

.

right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.

konceptual99

I believe that if the GB had any real idea that the Commission proceedings would be such a debacle they would have taken far more pre-emptive action. I am gutted there is a day off for them to have some time to get their s**t together for the next run of testimony.

I can see this going one of two ways:

Option 1 - they do nothing, just wait for the findings of the Commission and then spin it on the basis that most of the R&F will stay loyal and the public have short memories.

Option 2 - rapid changes in advance of the Commission to try and pre-empt the worst criticism. Possible changes would include:

- child abuse allegations being handled by a SWAT team of specially trained elders (as per the comments above)

- victims interviewed with support people (e.g. friends, relatives, SWAT team sisters)

- victims positively encouraged to report to the authorities and supported in this

- judicial action withheld until the authorities have investigated

- no requirement for a victim to face the accused

- any accused person having restrictions placed on them right away in terms of their privileges in the congregation and participation in activities such as the ministry

- pro-active steps taken to ensure children are not left in a potentially dangerous environment (this is already part of policy but how well it is enforced currently is another thing)

I am cautious of suggesting that the WTS will go on the offensive and start making open apologies and the like. They are still a very self-serving organisation when it comes to managing any liability. I suspect they will not do anything that would allow a glut of law suits to be presented world-wide as the implications on finances is huge.

I do have a feeling they will realise that this Commission will expose the chasm between what other organisations have done to implement child protection best practice and where they are now. I don't think they are so stupid as to think they can ride the storm essentially unscathed. Prepare for some rapid changes that apparently have always been the case and for a ridiculous amount of spin...

35

Article: Reveal News Organization: JWs Cover-Up of Child Sex Abuse and Oust a Victim

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-cover-up-child-sex-abuse-and-oust-a-victim/.

jehovahs witnesses cover up child sex abuse and oust a victim.

topics: criminal justice / religion .

konceptual99

I should find it astonishing that a father and mother would choose to side with a serial child abuser, the perpetrator of abuse against their own daughter and with the father being fully aware of the extent of this man's poisonous behaviour, just because their daughter has been disfellowshipped for being gay.

The fact I can consider this to be completely normal for some Witnesses is tragic beyond belief.

30

Speculation ( not theory ) on child abuse inquiries.

by DATA-DOG in

most of you, like me, keep yourself informed as to what's happening in jw-land.

like me, you make it your business to know what's going on.

so i'm wondering why the wtbts is allowing eldubs to appear in these inquiries in australia??

konceptual99

They have to appear. That's what makes this process in Australia so ground breaking in terms of exposure.

57

Dino Ali Taking the Stand NOW

by AudeSapere in

jw
friends

dino ali, elder, taking the stand now in the australian hearings.. he's talking about interaction with disfellowshipped persons.. watch it live: .

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

-aude..

konceptual99

@WitnessMyFury
@ konceptual99, so someone there blatantly lies about what was said to put a positive spin on things?

@WMF - I am not 100% sure if what I listened to was the complete testimony as it crossed two videos. I suggest waiting for the official video/transcripts assuming they will be released.

It is not in the transcripts. Blatant lie.

43

Extrapolation of the Australia child abuse numbers

by sir82 in

(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).

basic facts:.

the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.

konceptual99

Completely anecdotal but I raised the BBC report amongst a gang of friends over the weekend representing 3 congregations and we all knew of a case in each of our halls in the past 20 or so years. We also knew of another serious case in a friend's hall. I also know of a case in a local congregation that is not known about publicly and I have no idea if anyone in the congregation has been warned. There are some particular circumstances around the case but I know the person concerned goes to meetings.

This of course is related to people known to have committed abuse. We've got no idea if there is anyone else around that is either not known, never been convicted or otherwise.

It also is nothing to do with cases that have made the news over recent months.

My personal opinion is that I find it unlikely that there is as many as 1 or 2 abusers in each congregation of roughly 100 in the UK but 1-5 per circuit would not surprise me at all.

57

Dino Ali Taking the Stand NOW

by AudeSapere in

jw
friends

dino ali, elder, taking the stand now in the australian hearings.. he's talking about interaction with disfellowshipped persons.. watch it live: .

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

-aude..

konceptual99

@WMF - I am not 100% sure if what I listened to was the complete testimony as it crossed two videos. I suggest waiting for the official video/transcripts assuming they will be released.

I am surprised that one of the bench would accept being questioned by the person giving their testimony however.

15

Does the royal commission have the power to force the Jws to change how abuse is handled?

by hoser in

i'm wondering if this is just a hearing or if this commission has teeth?.

some very damning things coming out nonetheless .

konceptual99

From a scan of the terms of reference (http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/about-us/terms-of-reference) I don't believe it has any authority to force change but there are clearly conclusions and recommendations that will come out of the process.

It will be interesting to note any comparisons that may be made about the WTS v other institutions, not just about historical processes but also about what has been done over the past decades to improve processes and what should be done in the future.

There will be many organisations that will have a dubious track record but it will be very telling what conclusions are made as to where the WTS stands now in comparison to other similar institutions.

57

Dino Ali Taking the Stand NOW

by AudeSapere in

jw
friends

dino ali, elder, taking the stand now in the australian hearings.. he's talking about interaction with disfellowshipped persons.. watch it live: .

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

-aude..

konceptual99

@WMF
I didnt hear him do that either.... (hmmmm)

jwtalk. I tend to refer to it as "that other site"