Posts by konceptual99

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

Do you have a link for those documents RO please?

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

So in similar fashion, yes the Watchtower policy does not state that those that watch Child Pornography must be reported to the police in that section, you have to look at the full policy together. It does state that if either the elder or the branch feel that the child is still in danager, then they are to report the matter.

I don't think the policy does state this does it? I think all we have have is some words to the ARC. I may be wrong, but I don't think this has made it into any official policy yet?

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

We are not talking about each and every law. We are not talking about reporting a criminal activity because the law mandates you to. We are talking about an institutional child protection policy. We are talking about how an organisation responds when they become aware of an allegation of child abuse, and yes, I include the viewing of child pornography in this.

Any of these activities are criminal. Some, such as consensual sexual activity between older teens, may fall into a grey area in terms of where paedophilia is concerned but it's for the authorities to make that judgement.

An organisation can choose to adopt processes that go beyond what is required by the law to ensure that they reduce the risk of abuse taking place or continuing once it is exposed. Why the WTS seems to be so backward in all of this is beyond me.

The WTS is never going to held up to scrutiny for not reporting someone speeding but if they fail to report allegations of sexual abuse or the viewing of child pornography then then deserve all the criticism they receive.

Making pedantic points like some know it all 6th form gobshite does you no favours RO.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

See... OC was able to write the policy in 10 seconds.

It might seem simplistic but it is actually simple.

Is the alleged activity criminal? Yes - then report.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

So if the child is being victimized each time that someone watches a depiction of child pornography then the child is still in danger, isn't that correct? Then the mandatory reporting would come into play.

Really? There is no unilateral reporting in the instructions. There might have been a statement to the ARC but there is nothing AFAIK in the instructions actually out there. There is no direct link to reporting requirements made in the instructions on handling a viewer of child porn.

There is no reason for this to be so obtuse.

43

It seems that many witnesses simply dont care about facts?

by stuckinarut2 in

i often wonder if the current crop of witnesses, especially the youth and younger ones simply don't care about facts?.

i mean for some, even with knowledge of the past scandals, misleading teachings, mistruths, etc etc, they simply don't care.

"it is the truth after all".. they are so intertwined in the operations and activities of the society, that they cant see anything outside of it.

konceptual99

They are not the only ones. I was speaking to a member of the Plymouth Brethren who basically said his faith in Jesus meant he didn't even need to listen to what the the world around him said about things. If it was different to what Jesus was telling him then it didn't matter.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

...Watchtower has already made it clear that they will report a case of child abuse...

Have they?

Aside from where there are legal mandatory reporting laws in place the only reference I can recall to the WTS proactively reporting, regardless of internal judicial status, is in the statement to the ARC...

In circumstances where the elders and/or Branch office determine that a child is in danger, the elders will report the matter to law enforcement authorities even if there is insufficient Scriptural evidence to establish serious sin.

As yet, I don't believe this is the official, documented policy of the WTS even in Australia, let alone world wide.

Also, the above comment refers to a child being in danger. We are talking about here about child pornography so there is unlikely to be a victim known directly to the alleged perpetrator or to the elders. The direction given as per the quotes in the OP and the above quote show little evidence of there being a proactive stance taken to reporting someone who has committed the criminal offence of viewing child pornography.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

so again my question based on the law of the land, should a young teen couple in NC be arrested, prosecuted and put on a sexual registry, because they sent naked pictures of each other to each other?

That's a question for the authorities. It's up to them to determine how the state is going to deal with that.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

According to Interpol, child pornography is "child sex abuse material". Someone should tell the WT that.

Quite. With subjects as complex as this why the hell would they not want to engage with experts, get a suitable policy that reflects common and contemporary best practice and make it public? Why the hell would you not want the authorities involved to take the responsibility away?

As organisations go the WTS should be in a good position. They have few activities where a parent or multiple adults are not present and to manage any risks they do have should be pretty straight-forward. They obviously have a pastoral side which means elders may come to know about an allegation but why they have to entangle the secular and religious I don't understand. It really shouldn't be this complex.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

To be fair to RO, I think he plays devils advocate very well. I may not agree with him all of the time but there is generally a logic and reason to what he says and I don't think he should be dismissed simply on the basis that he may or may not be a WT apologist.

He is right that there are grey areas but it is for the authorities to determine how they sort this out. It is true that it is possible for a teenager at 15 to be convicted under sex offences laws for consensual acts with another 15 yo however this is where the prosecuting agencies come in. Here in the UK it is the DPP that determines if a prosecution is in the public interest and it would be rare for an individual 15 YO to be criminalised for sexual activity for another 15 yo. A 15 YO and a 10 YO might be viewed differently. I know a case of a 16 YO and a 12 YO where the 16 YO was reported by his parents for some activity with the younger child and cautioned by the police.

In all of this, there are guidelines for organisations to help them do the best they can however it seems that the WTS tries to go it alone every time.

I don't see why the WT cannot go down a path of reporting an allegation of activity and let the authorities take the burden of responsibility. If there was a clear, publicly available policy then everyone would know where they stand. If two young people knew that their sexual activity would result in them being reported to the authorities then so be it. Other organisations make that call.

Let the secular authorities do their job and let the elders and WTS do their thing without having to worry about making calls outside of their responsibilities.