Hate to disagree with such esteemed posters but I don't think the the hubris of the current GB extends to them playing the GT card. Cross that bridge and you cannot come back from it.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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17
RC on CNN - Damn this is Damning!!!
by jw07 ineven cnn has picked up the ongoing royal commission hearings.
i'm sitting back and eating popcorn for this one, it's like a dream come through.. http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/28/australia-jehovah-witness-sex-abuse-hannigan-lklv.cnn.
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Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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konceptual99
The WTS has to stand on their old, outdated judical law. If they started to dismantle the "two witness rule" and those archaic laws they follow,
Yes they do however they could find a strategy that would keep this in play but allow them to be seen to improving the policy. If they (a) always report and (b) delay judicial action until the authorities have investigated then they put the ball in the secular court and can then act in response to whatever the authorities do.
I really do think the GB have underestimated the impact of this and I am sure they are rapidly working out if they need to do something more proactive than simply sit put and do nothing whilst it blows over.
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Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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konceptual99
@nitty_gritty
You are right that the RC is looking at many institutions. You are also correct that the many organisations have failed child abuse victims in the past. The question is, what has changed?
The answer is very little of substance. Other organisations have implemented significant changes in their child protection policies but the GB has done bugger all. Jehovah's Witnesses do not even have a PUBLIC and TRANSPARENT policy. It's all hidden in the Shepherd the Flock book and letters to BoEs. If you are a victim you simply have to go along with however the elders deal with it, without any ability to refer to and understand the process.
So when you say....
I have no doubts though that whatever the Australian Commission decides in the way of policies, recommendations and practices to protect children, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be more than happy to comply with them
...you are talking bollocks.
The GB has had years to apply best practice. It has had years to make meaningful change.
How many times have you heard how far ahead of worldly laws the organisation is? How many times have you heard how far the organisation goes to exceed the requirements for building regulations, health and safety, working practices ad so on? The hierarchy walks around with a massive chubby on boasting about how far ahead the organisation is all the fecking time.
Yet on this matter they are so woefully and shamelessly behind the curve they cannot even see the other side of the corner. They refuse to push forward as they don't think they need to. They make no concessions, give no quarter lest they unleash a barrage of liability suits.
As recently as the past few weeks we have seen spin from the top making out the WTS has the best child protection policy in the world and demonising critics as apostates and liars. They even dug up some video that NO ONE has ever seen as if that proves they have are the world leaders in child protection.
There is only one reason the WTS will change in response to this Commission. I'll let you guess what that is.
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Is It Time to regroup?
by John Aquila inhow much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?
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right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.
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konceptual99
The (k)GB already knew this was going to happen, which is why in the July broadcast Lett said it was all apostate driven lies. It was said preemptively to attack the integrity of the royal commission hearing. I hope they use Lett's soundbite in the hearings next week.
Sure they knew this was happening. I am not convinced they had any idea the Commission would make all the witnesses so far look like such a bunch of utterly clueless and spineless chumps.
The real kicker is that not that much materially has changed. Sure the turd has been polished over the years but there is a hell of a lot that remains:
- accused facing the accuser
- male only questionings with no supporter or advocate for the victim
- two witnesses before any JC action can be taken
- no positive, pro-active support for, let alone unilateral mandatory, reporting
- possibility of abusers being appointed to positions of privilege possibility of an abuser being in a congregation with no or limited knowledge by members of the congregation
- possibility of a victim being, even unintentionally, influenced not to go to the authorities or being concerned about slander should they speak out
- elders being unable to act on conscience but rather having to defer to Bethel at all stages
So much of what contributed to piss poor handling of cases 20, 30, 40 years ago has not really changed. The usual course of action would be to ride it out but I have a suspicion that there will be some people giving the GB advice to the effect of doing some things voluntarily asap rather than having it forced on them.
The GB does not need precedents for legal action and costly payouts but it also needs to nip this in the bud and prevent other countries grabbing them by the balls. Too much of this and the next question to be asked will be about tax status, charitable status and community good.
In the meantime I bet they are moving funds around legal entities like there's no tomorrow in an effort to plead poverty just in case the litigation balloon goes up.
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Is It Time to regroup?
by John Aquila inhow much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?
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right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.
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konceptual99
Just thought as well... what are the chances of the Bethel heavies turning up for their testimony next week with some policy changes in hand? -
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Is It Time to regroup?
by John Aquila inhow much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?
.
right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.
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konceptual99
I believe that if the GB had any real idea that the Commission proceedings would be such a debacle they would have taken far more pre-emptive action. I am gutted there is a day off for them to have some time to get their s**t together for the next run of testimony.
I can see this going one of two ways:
Option 1 - they do nothing, just wait for the findings of the Commission and then spin it on the basis that most of the R&F will stay loyal and the public have short memories.
Option 2 - rapid changes in advance of the Commission to try and pre-empt the worst criticism. Possible changes would include:
- child abuse allegations being handled by a SWAT team of specially trained elders (as per the comments above)
- victims interviewed with support people (e.g. friends, relatives, SWAT team sisters)
- victims positively encouraged to report to the authorities and supported in this
- judicial action withheld until the authorities have investigated
- no requirement for a victim to face the accused
- any accused person having restrictions placed on them right away in terms of their privileges in the congregation and participation in activities such as the ministry
- pro-active steps taken to ensure children are not left in a potentially dangerous environment (this is already part of policy but how well it is enforced currently is another thing)
I am cautious of suggesting that the WTS will go on the offensive and start making open apologies and the like. They are still a very self-serving organisation when it comes to managing any liability. I suspect they will not do anything that would allow a glut of law suits to be presented world-wide as the implications on finances is huge.
I do have a feeling they will realise that this Commission will expose the chasm between what other organisations have done to implement child protection best practice and where they are now. I don't think they are so stupid as to think they can ride the storm essentially unscathed. Prepare for some rapid changes that apparently have always been the case and for a ridiculous amount of spin...
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Article: Reveal News Organization: JWs Cover-Up of Child Sex Abuse and Oust a Victim
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-cover-up-child-sex-abuse-and-oust-a-victim/.
jehovahs witnesses cover up child sex abuse and oust a victim.
topics: criminal justice / religion .
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konceptual99
I should find it astonishing that a father and mother would choose to side with a serial child abuser, the perpetrator of abuse against their own daughter and with the father being fully aware of the extent of this man's poisonous behaviour, just because their daughter has been disfellowshipped for being gay.
The fact I can consider this to be completely normal for some Witnesses is tragic beyond belief.
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Speculation ( not theory ) on child abuse inquiries.
by DATA-DOG inmost of you, like me, keep yourself informed as to what's happening in jw-land.
like me, you make it your business to know what's going on.
so i'm wondering why the wtbts is allowing eldubs to appear in these inquiries in australia??
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konceptual99
They have to appear. That's what makes this process in Australia so ground breaking in terms of exposure. -
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Dino Ali Taking the Stand NOW
by AudeSapere indino ali, elder, taking the stand now in the australian hearings.. he's talking about interaction with disfellowshipped persons.. watch it live: .
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
-aude..
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konceptual99
It is not in the transcripts. Blatant lie.@WitnessMyFury
@ konceptual99, so someone there blatantly lies about what was said to put a positive spin on things?
@WMF - I am not 100% sure if what I listened to was the complete testimony as it crossed two videos. I suggest waiting for the official video/transcripts assuming they will be released. -
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Extrapolation of the Australia child abuse numbers
by sir82 in(let me know if anyone thinks my assumptions are way out of line, or if i've forgotten anything).
basic facts:.
the australian royal commission has 1000+ documented cases of child abuse over 65 years.
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konceptual99
Completely anecdotal but I raised the BBC report amongst a gang of friends over the weekend representing 3 congregations and we all knew of a case in each of our halls in the past 20 or so years. We also knew of another serious case in a friend's hall. I also know of a case in a local congregation that is not known about publicly and I have no idea if anyone in the congregation has been warned. There are some particular circumstances around the case but I know the person concerned goes to meetings.
This of course is related to people known to have committed abuse. We've got no idea if there is anyone else around that is either not known, never been convicted or otherwise.
It also is nothing to do with cases that have made the news over recent months.
My personal opinion is that I find it unlikely that there is as many as 1 or 2 abusers in each congregation of roughly 100 in the UK but 1-5 per circuit would not surprise me at all.