Catolic church only says: You dont have to study the manusscripts, do dont have to study the bible,
you shall have a realtionship with Jesus. That is enough. hmmm.
TheWonderofYou
JoinedPosts by TheWonderofYou
-
23
THE PROBLEM with reading the Bible literally is . . . you can't think too hard
by Terry ini want to begin with a quotation by stephen colbert: "we're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth the truth we want to exist" - stephen colbert on the origin of the word "truthiness.".
moses brought 10 plagues upon egypt to change pharoah's mind about letting jehovah's people go.. the 5th plague is to destroy only the egyptian livestock:.
6 and the next day the lord did it: all the livestock of the egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the israelites died.. a few days later the 7th plague is described:.
-
-
-
23
THE PROBLEM with reading the Bible literally is . . . you can't think too hard
by Terry ini want to begin with a quotation by stephen colbert: "we're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth the truth we want to exist" - stephen colbert on the origin of the word "truthiness.".
moses brought 10 plagues upon egypt to change pharoah's mind about letting jehovah's people go.. the 5th plague is to destroy only the egyptian livestock:.
6 and the next day the lord did it: all the livestock of the egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the israelites died.. a few days later the 7th plague is described:.
-
-
TheWonderofYou
Here a link to a radio discussion between Prof. Ehrmann and Peter Williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfN0MaJyj0U
Many other videos with Prof. Ehrmann.
Greetings.
-
23
THE PROBLEM with reading the Bible literally is . . . you can't think too hard
by Terry ini want to begin with a quotation by stephen colbert: "we're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth the truth we want to exist" - stephen colbert on the origin of the word "truthiness.".
moses brought 10 plagues upon egypt to change pharoah's mind about letting jehovah's people go.. the 5th plague is to destroy only the egyptian livestock:.
6 and the next day the lord did it: all the livestock of the egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the israelites died.. a few days later the 7th plague is described:.
-
-
TheWonderofYou
Here a link to a radio discussion between Prof. Ehrmann and Peter Williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfN0MaJyj0U
Many other videos with Prof. Ehrmann.
Greetings.
-
23
THE PROBLEM with reading the Bible literally is . . . you can't think too hard
by Terry ini want to begin with a quotation by stephen colbert: "we're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth the truth we want to exist" - stephen colbert on the origin of the word "truthiness.".
moses brought 10 plagues upon egypt to change pharoah's mind about letting jehovah's people go.. the 5th plague is to destroy only the egyptian livestock:.
6 and the next day the lord did it: all the livestock of the egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the israelites died.. a few days later the 7th plague is described:.
-
-
TheWonderofYou
Jesus never ordered the apostels to write down his words. We can be happy that at least some of them were educated enough to write down
the gospels, they are errorneus collected stories and letters. But discovering that stories you know acutally what the guys felt in the first century in their heart and undertand that everything is communicated without big errors. Thank you lord that you blessed your apostels anyway, although you not ordered them to do write down anythin and that you sent them the paracletos that helped and assistent them.
The special thanks for the bible goes thus to......the church, who else could decide which scriptures were worthy to be read in all congretations and should be transcripted, translated and copied, what was a very expensive hobby for such fantastic stories in the ancient time. So unreliable the bible could not be, if you consider that the founders of our church payed with their lifes, what they wrote down.Sincerly TWOY
-
154
How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??
by jam init's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.
"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.
"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".
-
-
TheWonderofYou
Input to this topic : letter of the CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH dated 1979
"7) In fidelity to the New Testament and Tradition, the Church believes in the happiness of the just who will one day be with Christ. She believes that there will be eternal punishment for the sinner, who will be deprived of the sight of God, and that this punishment will have a repercussion on the whole being of the sinner. She believes in the possibility of a purification for the elect before they see God, a purification altogether different from the punishment of the damned. This is what the Church means when speaking of Hell and Purgatory.
When dealing with man's situation after death, one must especially beware of arbitrary imaginative representations: excess of this kind is a major cause of the difficulties that Christian faith often encounters. Respect must however be given to the images employed in the Scriptures. Their profound meaning must be discerned, while avoiding the risk of over-attenuating them, since this often empties of substance the realities designated by the images
Neither Scripture nor theology provides sufficient light for a proper picture of life after death. Christians must firmly hold the two following essential points: on the one hand they must believe in the fundamental continuity, thanks to the power of the Holy Spirit, between our present life in Christ and the future life (charity is the law of the Kingdom of God and our charity on earth will be the measure of our sharing in God's glory in heaven); on the other hand they must be clearly aware of the radical break between the present life and the future one, due to the fact that the economy of faith will be replaced by the economy of fullness of life: we shall be with Christ and "we shall see God" (cf. 1 Jn 3:2), and it is in these promises and marvellous mysteries that our hope essentially consists. Our imagination may be incapable of reaching these heights, but our heart does so instinctively and completely."
-
154
How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??
by jam init's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.
"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.
"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".
-
-
TheWonderofYou
BTW designs, thanks for your interesting commenting, showing that Gods punishments would never be unbalanced.
:-)
-
154
How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??
by jam init's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.
"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.
"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".
-
-
TheWonderofYou
But what about the apocalytic ideas. They are not part of the torah but are jewish? aren'nt they?
How important were these apocalyptic ideas or warnings about the fate of the condemned in the mind of a 1-st century Jew or christian?
Ideas of the apocalyptic doomsday and judgement and a phantastic future developped in the Jewish world (such as Isaiah's geena ) but they were not determining the thoughts continuing. From there originate the Doomsday phantasies, which emphazize a future individual judgement with the thought of fair vengeance.
The jewish community concentrated itself more on the important religious heritage, the festivals of Rosh ha Schana, which was interpreted as day of judgement and the Jom Kippur, seen as the day of Consiliation, which gave the people the possibilty for active repentence and consiliation between each other already in the actual life and not in an apocalytic future.
Rosh ha Schana, the day of jugdement, was celebrated on the first day of the year because of its importance to remembered everybody about the responsibilty towards God, especially to the demand and gift of conciliation. A “verdict” over the deeds of the last year was written and on Jom Kippur after the 10 days of expiation it was “sealed”.
Is this correct?
I think by means of these festivals the Jews knew well that Mercy and Love were indeed Gods character and The judgement day allegories are neverlesse
part of gods word but can only be interpreted on the basis of Gods mercy. Judgement and repentance was a daily work for a jew. Jesus and the Apostels were Jews of the 1 st c A.D. and they knew not only the Old Testament Text, but also each jewish interpretation of the scriputres and the jewish festivals. Over the centuries with the abruption of contact between Jews and Christians the Jewish Background and the mindset get forgotten by most people. The adjustment to come to a balanced few of the Scriptures was missed. Unbalanced interpretation appeared.Talmud: Mercy should the way and aim of rightousness in the jew belief “Take the beam from between your eyes” (baba batra 15 b)
http://www.come-and-hear.com/bababathra/bababathra_15.html#PARTb
R. Huna contrasted [two parts of the same verse]. It is written, The Lord is righteous in all his
ways, and then it is written, and gracious in all his works.2 [How is this]?3 — At first righteous and
at the end gracious.4 R. Eleazar [similarly] contrasted two texts. It is written, Also unto thee, O Lord,
belongeth mercy, and then it is written, For thou renderest to every man according to his work.5
[How is this]? — At first, ‘Thou renderest to every man according to his work’, but at the end, ‘unto
thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy
-
154
How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??
by jam init's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.
"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.
"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".
-
-
TheWonderofYou
1635 AD. Friedrich von Spee, Güldenes Tugend Tagebuch, page 118
develops the thought that God could cancel the original sin by means of his love.Friedrich is seen as central figure who argumented against the witch hunting and he expressed a
anti-perspective towards the official hell doctrine. -
154
How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??
by jam init's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.
"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.
"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".
-
-
TheWonderofYou
"Whether these notions should be understood solely allegorical or to what extent the symbols refer to the matter itself as well, is really hard to decide. Certainly it can be only explained by considering the total belief system” (translation by me, citation: Ratzinger, in Introduction to Christianity concering the ideas of a Christ on a judgment seat at the Parousia).
-
154
How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??
by jam init's obvious the bible is very clear on a actual hell of fire.
"cursed into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels", rev.20:15.
"lake of fire", rev.21:8 "fire and brimstone".
-
-
TheWonderofYou
Is “torment”, “agony” - really extra biblical, extra-Jewish and pagan influence?
Can I paint over all bible passages where horrible words appear with my permanent with pure conscience? My children could feel unnecessary fear of those words.
My most hated are:
“ torment for all eternity” in the firelike (Rev. 20,10) though the words are merely part of an inspired allegory
“ inextinguisable fire” with which John the Baptist warned Herodes Antipas though it is not literal
“ agony in clacing fire” in the story Jesus told, tough the agony is not literal but Jesus only intended to warn.
- “ everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” in the story about a king who selects the evil goats for slaughter.
By what other christian non pagan words I should actually replace these allegoric phrases which appear in the most popular and most read gospels and were told by Jesus himself?
Why did Jesus or the Apostel not explain that or propose a balanced view of the matter? They permanently used those unchristian words after all, Jesus spoke even of that that little lovely goats would receive the same “everlasting fire” that was prepared for the devil? Didn't they think that the Devil deserved literal conscious pain?
What did the jewish people really believe in the time of Jesus Christ? If Jesus used the agony in the hades in story, how much did the people really believe in an after life and a fair punishment. Why should Jesus tell such a story, why should he support a pagan fantasy or extra-biblical idea?
What did the people in the jewish-christian epoch acutally belief in?