JoenB75

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Posts by JoenB75

• 
  64

  William Miller

  by lepavoux in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

  !.

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  JoenB75

  vienne,

  I understand. It is a fascinating history.
• 
  64

  William Miller

  by lepavoux in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

  !.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  JoenB75

  Finkelstein,

  They certainly had their success and imagine if they had taught tithing
• 
  64

  William Miller

  by lepavoux in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

  !.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  vienne,

  I read the first volume of Russell's studies years ago. I think in order for a teaching to be scriptural, it has to be expressed in scripture. It seems to me we have verses that support universalism as an outcome, whereas second chance theology is argued from verses that speak of universal resurrection and judgment, the verses used to argue universalism is also used but interpreted to mean a temporary version, God's prophetic blessings especially to israel and then a strong appeal to freewill belief and "it would be unfair if". Anyway thanks for the link to the Storr's writing, I will look through it .
• 
  34

  How do JWs view the Ransom?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looking for a simple explanation of the ransom from a jws perspective..

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  JoenB75

  Yes I believe God himself became man. I think Athanasius though trinitarian worded it so well in "On the Incarnation"; "His body was for Him not a limitation, but an instrument, so that He was both in it and in all things, and outside all things, resting in the Father alone. At one and the same time—this is the wonder—as Man He was living a human life, and as Word He was sustaining the life of the universe, and as Son He was in constant union with the Father". It explains to me how that creating Word became man
• 
  34

  How do JWs view the Ransom?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looking for a simple explanation of the ransom from a jws perspective..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  LV101 yes Arianism makes sense to some people and I can certainly see why the trinity makes no sense to people. We may ask who became man? Who is this new Lord and enfleshed voice of God? ☺️
• 
  64

  William Miller

  by lepavoux in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

  !.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  Ok thanks for the sources. I guess in this epoch, a lot of larger hope books were written. Most were universalist but there were also some that said people would get a "first real chance to be saved in favorable conditions on earth". I can see why some people would arrive at this as a favorable conclusion but it is equally clear that it all depends on Russell being the special divinely appointed messenger of Jehovah in effect bringing us new scripture. The Bible says nothing about this particular scenario. Russell/JW teachings depend on the leadership being God's mouthpiece although they have always been coy about it. The followers imagined he saw things in Scripture others did not, few imagined he wrote new scripture .
• 
  64

  William Miller

  by lepavoux in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

  !.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  Vienne,

  I am not taking about mortality of the soul. I see nothing in chapter 7 of Tertullian's "Prescription of Heretics" about the teaching "about a resurrection of most of mankind to a first real chance of proving themselves worthy to life on earth". You then say "and I see it as easy to derive from the Bible." ok I must have missed that
• 
  64

  William Miller

  by lepavoux in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

  !.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  vienne,

  The one thing that fascinates me about Russell is this; from where did he get his teaching about a resurrection of most of mankind to a first real chance of proving themselves worthy to life on earth? Who taught it before him? Any clues?
• 
  64

  William Miller

  by lepavoux in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

  !.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  I am sure as an occultist there was some fellow ground, whatever you want to call it

  http://www.watchthetower.net/russell.html
  
• 
  64

  William Miller

  by lepavoux in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

  !.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  In the early church you had people that taught Premillennialism in the form that Christ would pop up as King on earth and restore it. You had people that believed the torment of the damned lasted 1,000 years "only" or that they after ages of torment would be saved, perhaps even more charitable views. But I have never heard of anyone in Christian context prior to Russell claiming that almost all the dead would be raised on earth to education and second chance. On the other hand it is hard to imagine he made it up himself 😊