JoenB75

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Posts by JoenB75

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  48

  Does prophesy negate free will?

  by Tim207 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  not sure if this is in the right subject but here it goes.

  i’ve asked this question to a few elders and bethelites but they don’t seem to understand or like the question.

  to start off we have to agree that jehovah is all powerful.

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  JoenB75

  Cofty,

  Bad mouthing from a disgruntled former follower of men like you is a badge of honour
• 
  48

  Does prophesy negate free will?

  by Tim207 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  not sure if this is in the right subject but here it goes.

  i’ve asked this question to a few elders and bethelites but they don’t seem to understand or like the question.

  to start off we have to agree that jehovah is all powerful.

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• 

  JoenB75

  Cofty,

  Sure and God is not ashamed by it. Remember what Paul says concerning potter and clay. But to sum up the human experience as suffering seems like something coming from a depressed mind. There is much more to it. The idea that the fall was something bad dates back to Augustine. Irenaeus saw it differently.
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  48

  Does prophesy negate free will?

  by Tim207 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  not sure if this is in the right subject but here it goes.

  i’ve asked this question to a few elders and bethelites but they don’t seem to understand or like the question.

  to start off we have to agree that jehovah is all powerful.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  JoenB75

  Of course nothing says God did not know of the fall (and the reality the allegory portrays) or indeed planned it. The sacrificial Lamb was forordained

  
  
• 
  10

  New scrolls

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in 1985 a new phrase was added to our vocabulary, "new scrolls", complete with an explanation as to how they will benefit those who inhabit the new world.

  the following five references are the only quotations of this new 'teaching', but incredibly, these two words have been indelibly stamped on most people's minds by repetition from platform speakers, and in general conversation.. w85 6/15 p. 18 par.

  21 "during this thousand-year judgment period, jehovah evidently will give additional instructions, unknown to us at present, as new "scrolls" are opened.

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  JoenB75

  Rubadub,

  I was thinking a bit about Stephen Lett's famous statement. In my understanding Revelation deals with the first century and the new heavens and earth is the state of the Church and heaven after AD 70. Revelation 18:2 deals with the judgment upon Jerusalem. I also believe 1 Corinthians 15:26 is yet future
• 
  10

  New scrolls

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in 1985 a new phrase was added to our vocabulary, "new scrolls", complete with an explanation as to how they will benefit those who inhabit the new world.

  the following five references are the only quotations of this new 'teaching', but incredibly, these two words have been indelibly stamped on most people's minds by repetition from platform speakers, and in general conversation.. w85 6/15 p. 18 par.

  21 "during this thousand-year judgment period, jehovah evidently will give additional instructions, unknown to us at present, as new "scrolls" are opened.

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  JoenB75

  The sort of inventive speculation you use when you do not accept the simple Bible gospel. Personally I would say the scroll of life relates to the eons where death is not yet subjected (1 Corinthians 15:26) as Revelation clearly does not portray the final state of the every end of ends
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  3

  Absolute proof world conditions are getting better

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this century vs. beginning of last century-.

  we had the great recession they had the great depression!.

  so far 125k dead.

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  JoenB75

  The sad truth is that improved living is dooming us. The Africans, the Chinese etc. are living better and that means overpopulation and overpolution. So when we look at things with secular glasses, we got one obvious cause of doom and gloom there. Here in the West living is certainly better unless we are terrorized by some Muslim gangs.
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  48

  Does prophesy negate free will?

  by Tim207 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  not sure if this is in the right subject but here it goes.

  i’ve asked this question to a few elders and bethelites but they don’t seem to understand or like the question.

  to start off we have to agree that jehovah is all powerful.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  Well regardless of various philosophies, the Bible makes some very clear statements on the subject. It does not adress the case of every person as philosophy requires, but it mention some cases in which God has no concern about human choice. "They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen" Acts 4:28. For some elusive reason this is very hard for men to accept.
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  34

  Due to Covid-19 a coming Global Government, the Beast of Revelation 13

  by Kosonen in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  just recently there have been calls from heavyweight statesmen to set up a new global authority to tackle the covid-19 pandemic and the economic crisis it creates.they are henry kissinger, former uk primeministers gordon brown and tony blair.former prime minister of uk, tony blair is fervently advising governments around the world how to get the corona virus under control and how to restart the economy after the lockdown.

  he is running tony blair institute for global changeon its webpage we can learn about his work with this:https://institute.global/tony-blair/mes ... t-covid-19"create one crisis-management centre.

  governments should have already repositioned themselves towards crisis management.

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  JoenB75

  Hi Kosonen,

  A very important thing here is if Bible prophecy is to be understood literally or not. As J.S. Russell said:

  "The slightest attention to the language of Old Testament prophecy must convince any sober-minded man that it is not to be understood according to the letter. First of all, the utterances of the prophets are poetry; and, secondly, they are Oriental poetry. They may be called the hieroglyphic pictures representing historical events in highly metaphorical imagery. It is inevitable, therefore, that hyperbole, or that which to us appears such, should enter largely into the descriptions of the prophets. To the cold prosaic imagination of the West, the glowing and vivid style of the prophets of the East may seem turgid and extravagant; but there is always a substratum of reality underlying the figures and symbols, which, the more they are studies, commend themselves the more to the judgment of the reader. Social and political revolutions, moral and spiritual changes, are shadowed forth by physical convulsions and catastrophes; and if these natural phenomena affect the imagination more powerfully still, they are not inappropriate figures when the real importance of the events which they represent is apprehended. The earth convulsed with earthquakes, burning mountains cast into eh sea, the stars falling like leaves, the heavens on fire, the sun clothed in sackcloth, the moon turned into blood, representations of great civil commotions, - the overturning of thrones and dynasties, the desolations of war, the abolition of ancient systems, and great moral and spiritual revolutions. In prophecy, as in poetry, the material is regarded as the type of the spiritual, the passions and emotions of humanity find expression in corresponding signs and symptoms in the inanimate creation. Does the prophet come with glad tidings? He calls the forest to clap their hands. Is his message one of lamentation and woe? The heavens are draped in mourning, and the sun is darkened in his going down. No one, however anxious to keep by the bare letter of the word, would think of insisting that such metaphors should be literally interpreted, or must have literal fulfillment. The utmost that we are entitled to require is, that there should be such historical events specified as may worthily correspond with such phenomena; great moral and social movements capable of producing such emotions as these physical phenomena seem to imply. "

  Full text here:

  http://www.preteristcentral.com/Symbolism%20of%20Prophecy%20-%20Russell.html

  Revelation quotes a lot from the old testament prophecies. Coming from JW background we already know there is a lot of symbolism. In Matthew 24 there is no indication of any shift. Jesus is consistently speaking of one future event; the destruction of the old testament order and the establishment of the new.

  What kind of scenario does Revelation end with? An end to the world as we know it or rather the Kingdom of God on a sinful earth where saints go to heaven after death?

  Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

  There are people outside the new Jerusalem just as in the old Jerusalem. It is the Church.

  We should not expect a literal mark of the beast anymore than Jesus writing names on anyone (Rev 3:12). They are marked in non literal sense.
• 
  34

  Due to Covid-19 a coming Global Government, the Beast of Revelation 13

  by Kosonen in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  just recently there have been calls from heavyweight statesmen to set up a new global authority to tackle the covid-19 pandemic and the economic crisis it creates.they are henry kissinger, former uk primeministers gordon brown and tony blair.former prime minister of uk, tony blair is fervently advising governments around the world how to get the corona virus under control and how to restart the economy after the lockdown.

  he is running tony blair institute for global changeon its webpage we can learn about his work with this:https://institute.global/tony-blair/mes ... t-covid-19"create one crisis-management centre.

  governments should have already repositioned themselves towards crisis management.

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  JoenB75

  Hi Kosonen, considering 2,000 years have passed and mankind had experienced many end times scensrios, why would that be likely? But the book itself says the time is near and Jesus is coming soon (1:3, 22:12). The Temple was still standing (11:2). Jesus tells us the generation he was manifest in would not pass until all these things had happened (Matthew 24:34). It all fits well with the destruction of the old testament kosmos in AD 70, the harlot city and Temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:7 does not indicate a time frame of 2,000 years either.
• 
  34

  Due to Covid-19 a coming Global Government, the Beast of Revelation 13

  by Kosonen in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  just recently there have been calls from heavyweight statesmen to set up a new global authority to tackle the covid-19 pandemic and the economic crisis it creates.they are henry kissinger, former uk primeministers gordon brown and tony blair.former prime minister of uk, tony blair is fervently advising governments around the world how to get the corona virus under control and how to restart the economy after the lockdown.

  he is running tony blair institute for global changeon its webpage we can learn about his work with this:https://institute.global/tony-blair/mes ... t-covid-19"create one crisis-management centre.

  governments should have already repositioned themselves towards crisis management.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JoenB75

  Revelation 13 concerns Neronic persecution of the early Church. That interpretation needs no new light ☺️