peacefulpete

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Posts by peacefulpete

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  8

  Memorial of Jesus' death

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was listening to a youtube where a pastor relates his experience of attending a jw memorial.

  he said something that was profound to me.. "how do you have a memorial for someone alive?".

  they use this phrase all the time, even printing thousands and thousands of invitations to invite everyone to join them in doing this.. i googled that phrase to see what other christian church's use this phrase and was astounded to see that at least the first two pages of results are in relation to jw's only..

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  peacefulpete

  Memorial vs. Commemoration. Agreed the word choice is odd.

  In today's parlance, a "celebration of life" might be more in keeping with traditional Christian theology.
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  18

  Out of the Mouths of Vampires

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most quoted and loved passages of the bible has an unexpected textual history.

  at matt 21:16 jesus is made to say:.

  have you never read, ‘from the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself’?”.

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  peacefulpete

  regarding the vampire in the title, there was no intention of any antisemitic allusion. It was a pop culture reference.

  It didn't occur to me the possibility of it being interpreted that way. sorry if I offended.
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  18

  Out of the Mouths of Vampires

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most quoted and loved passages of the bible has an unexpected textual history.

  at matt 21:16 jesus is made to say:.

  have you never read, ‘from the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself’?”.

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  peacefulpete

  You cannot recreate something that did not come from your culture and your language. You cannot tell Native American people that they got their myths wrong or Japanese that you know more about Shinto than they do, especially when you don't read or understand their languages or lived their lives or practiced their religions. Can you imagine what you must sound like to me?

  Surely you are not suggesting a modern Jew has a monopoly on researching thousands year old forms of Judaism. Can you imagine what you must sound like to me?

  The idea that you think Mark is a Catholic apologist like Jimmy Akin makes me realize why you would think I don't know what I don't know what I am talking about.

  I argued just the opposite. Mark is not an apologist as is evidenced by his work.
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  18

  Out of the Mouths of Vampires

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most quoted and loved passages of the bible has an unexpected textual history.

  at matt 21:16 jesus is made to say:.

  have you never read, ‘from the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself’?”.

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  peacefulpete

  Either you are hurt somewhere by what I wrote or upset, because it is obviously apparent that I did read it. I quoted from it, remember?

  Ah, no. I was not hurt or upset. I'm still processing your comments. I did read your statement...

  This means that Psalm 8 has nothing to do with the myth even though a word evolved from the idea.

  ...to mean he has not made this connection, and as erroneously suggesting the whole argument is hinged upon the one word.

  You seem to be saying: Mark as a scholar, raised as Catholic, has a colored take on the Psalm. He of theological necessity sees it as related to creation mythology involving ancient deities so as to reinterpret it as related to Catholic Christology. Would you also suppose his books have similarly imagined such a link for the same undelaying premise? I read them many years ago and never saw a hint of that.

  If you do, do you interpret any attempt at form criticism of ancient poetry as a waste of time, perhaps even disingenuous? I'm guessing not but I'm, as I said, I'm processing your comments.

  Have I understood your position correctly? And regards my naivety, I've been around enough to know a thing or two. Pretend you are having a discussion with a peer.
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  18

  Out of the Mouths of Vampires

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most quoted and loved passages of the bible has an unexpected textual history.

  at matt 21:16 jesus is made to say:.

  have you never read, ‘from the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself’?”.

  1. 
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• 

  peacefulpete

  Halcon....typed communication has many drawbacks. I was referring to Mark's Catholicism in that last comment . I think we agreed his identifying as a Catholic hasn't obscured his objectivity. I do feel he is misreading Mark's article or not reading it at all. Mark is quite clear he sees a related parallel myth to the Ugaritic.
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  18

  Out of the Mouths of Vampires

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most quoted and loved passages of the bible has an unexpected textual history.

  at matt 21:16 jesus is made to say:.

  have you never read, ‘from the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself’?”.

  1. 
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  3. 
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  peacefulpete

  We are saying the same thing. Perhaps I should have went with my first thought and said Mark was Catholic like you are Jewish. But wasn't sure if that was offensive.
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  20

  So Let's Say Bigger Change Happens

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if a change in the blood policy happens, who will be more upset, jws or former jws?

  i suspect the latter.

  when the beard thing went down, jw's seem to immediately embrace it, whereas many former jw's have been brooding about it.. did it take away a pet gripe we had?.

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  peacefulpete

  NotJacob....for every a-hole there are a dozen people who care and feel like you. The a-holes just get all the attention.
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  18

  Out of the Mouths of Vampires

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most quoted and loved passages of the bible has an unexpected textual history.

  at matt 21:16 jesus is made to say:.

  have you never read, ‘from the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself’?”.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  peacefulpete

  Mark is Catholic like Bishop Spong was Episcopalian. I appreciate your pursuing the topic, I still can't agree. I read Mark to be saying the Jewish version of the myth need not necessarily be the exact same as the Ugarit. As a related yet unique culture, it almost certainly wasn't.

  
  

  His books are hardly the stuff Catholic Apologists would write. Anyway, it is being proposed as a possible solution to what many have felt was a problem. The "Vampire" in the title of my post of course was mine. Discussions about the later Jewish Alukah mythology often uses the term vampire.

  
  

  
  

  The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts

  
  

  The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel (The Biblical Resource Series (BRS))
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  18

  Out of the Mouths of Vampires

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most quoted and loved passages of the bible has an unexpected textual history.

  at matt 21:16 jesus is made to say:.

  have you never read, ‘from the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself’?”.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  peacefulpete

  I do respect experience and knowledge and regard your opinions highly. Thanks for your input.
• 
  18

  Out of the Mouths of Vampires

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most quoted and loved passages of the bible has an unexpected textual history.

  at matt 21:16 jesus is made to say:.

  have you never read, ‘from the mouths of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise for yourself’?”.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  peacefulpete

  Don't buy into the story that this Psalm was composed in some "Golden Age" of a Solomonic Temple than likely never was.

  I am not under that impression. The Psalms were in fact finally compiled and redacted as some of the latest to be included in the Tanakh, this is well known. However, they do often preserve older material.

  My necessarily brief post may have contributed to your dismissive conclusion. Perhaps carefully reading Smith's article may fill in the many gaps I have left. Psalm 8:2b-3: New Proposals for Old Problems on JSTOR

  As to the 2nd temple dating, that was in fact a time of rebirth of demonology and mysticism as you have elsewhere remarked. IMO, an ancient cosmological hymn that referenced a vanquishing of evil children of El is no more anachronistic than one referencing Leviathan. These names and stories had lost their original cultic importance in some sense, but the themes of creation and divine wisdom made these ancient motifs simultaneously viable and poignant.

  A certain confusion (or discomfort) with the text explains the LXX form.

  Also, the proposed parallel Proverb 30 has inspired Jewish mystics and clerics' embrace of an Aluka demon since very soon after the Psalms were compiled.

  While there are certainly other proposals to explain the difficulties with both texts, (lost vowels, added consonants, scribal error, etc.) this research is not ideologically driven nor conducted by amateurs. Mark Smith for example is among top of his field of Semitic studies and his proposal here is consistent with his extensive knowledge of Hebrew poetry and ANE mythology.