Hey Phizzy, I also miss some of the outstanding posters like leolaia. I hope she is well. Lost touch quite a few years ago. Anyway, unfortunately, as regards ancient attestation beyond possibly the Egyptian, no. Not that I'm aware of. It may always have been rare. The Rabbis simply regard it as a variant spelling, without any explanation as to how or why. Prof, Knohl's hypothesis seems to be the first attempt to connect the Egyptian references and the rare 2 OT usages. It may have lingered in some liturgical context for centuries with Isaiah assuming like the Rabbis today that it was simply a variant.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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Beyah the God of the Jews?
by peacefulpete inhaving stumbled upon this little tidbit, i thought i'd share.
i've a few times mentioned the midianite or kennite hypothesis which assumes the numerous ot texts that describe yahweh as having migrated north to judah represent credible mnemonic history.
while reading an article by prof. israel knohl i learned something rather surprising.
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Beyah the God of the Jews?
by peacefulpete inhaving stumbled upon this little tidbit, i thought i'd share.
i've a few times mentioned the midianite or kennite hypothesis which assumes the numerous ot texts that describe yahweh as having migrated north to judah represent credible mnemonic history.
while reading an article by prof. israel knohl i learned something rather surprising.
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peacefulpete
Well, I guess this stuff is interesting to only me. As a further support to this hypothesis the Mishna (mYoma6) retains the name as Ba(shem) shem here a stand in for Yah. So here BaYah seems another example of the variant.
Prof Israel Knolh is the Yehezkel Kaufmann Professor of Bible at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and a senior research fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute. He holds a Ph.D. in Bible from Hebrew University. Knohl’s numerous publications include: The Sanctuary of Silence, which won the Z. Shkopp Prize for Biblical Studies and The Messiah before Jesus: The Suffering Servant of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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Beyah the God of the Jews?
by peacefulpete inhaving stumbled upon this little tidbit, i thought i'd share.
i've a few times mentioned the midianite or kennite hypothesis which assumes the numerous ot texts that describe yahweh as having migrated north to judah represent credible mnemonic history.
while reading an article by prof. israel knohl i learned something rather surprising.
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peacefulpete
Having stumbled upon this little tidbit, I thought I'd share. I've a few times mentioned the Midianite or Kennite hypothesis which assumes the numerous OT texts that describe Yahweh as having migrated north to Judah represent credible mnemonic history. While reading an article by Prof. Israel Knohl I learned something rather surprising.
Ps 68:4-6 uses typical Baal imagery in a very ancient song describing Yahweh. But note that the name in Hebrew is "Beyah" not the conventional Yah or Yahweh.
Sing to God, chant hymns to His name; extol Him who rides the clouds; Beyah is His name. Exult in His presence.
Most translations just ignore the variant. Scholars have attempted to dismiss it as a partial editorial glass. However, 7 centuries later Isaiah 26:4 similarly uses the Beyah variant.
Trust in YHWH for ever and ever, for Beyah YHWH is an everlasting Rock.
This second usage seems a redundant duplication that translators have mechanically repeated. The odds however that we have an identical partial editor glass strains credulity. It seems much more likely the Beyah variant was yet another theophoric title.
The connection of this to the Midianite hypothesis is made clear when we learn Beyah literally means " in Yah(wa)" a possible geographical identity of the god with a place. This coincides well with the Egyptian (in Amunhotep III’s Soleb Nubian temple) geographical mention of a "land of Yahwa" in the region of Seir, home of Yahweh according to the OT.
In short, this geographical link may explain the variant name Beyah in the Psalm and Isaiah. It's a vestige of referring to the god as the 'god manifested in the land of Yahwa.' The name of the land itself being theophoric, that is the name of the land was the name of a patron god as was commonly done. Assyria being the land of Assur for example.
We learn more about this deity all the time through archaeology and textual crumbs.
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How to reason with friends
by peacefulpete inwe have long time friends who are seriously involved with the urantia book.
they have regular meetings with others and seem to have become convinced of its alien inspiration.
it seems mostly harmless but weirds out anyone who talks to them.. do any of you have experience with this or have suggestions about how to debunk the book?.
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peacefulpete
Book that alleges to have come through some galactic spirit medium. 2000 pages long, covers everything.
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How to reason with friends
by peacefulpete inwe have long time friends who are seriously involved with the urantia book.
they have regular meetings with others and seem to have become convinced of its alien inspiration.
it seems mostly harmless but weirds out anyone who talks to them.. do any of you have experience with this or have suggestions about how to debunk the book?.
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peacefulpete
We have long time friends who are seriously involved with the Urantia book. They have regular meetings with others and seem to have become convinced of its alien inspiration. It seems mostly harmless but weirds out anyone who talks to them.
Do any of you have experience with this or have suggestions about how to debunk the book?
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Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower
by Indoubtbigtime ini’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.
they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.
they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.
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peacefulpete
I suspect newly 'awakened' folks are imagining their own emotional break from the church somehow predicts the same for many others. The church has survived and grown through a century of contradictions, scandals, power struggles, and financial challenges. In my estimation, they have gotten much better at the game and the next decade of electronic media will likely be a golden age for them.
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The UN, was the WTS given special knowledge?
by peacefulpete inthe league of nations and the united nations in prophetic speculation
how is it that so many individuals through the centuries have found such a pleasure in playing the role of prophet, despite the fact that their prophecies so seldom come true?
regularly their predictions fail, yet they go on with prophesying.
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peacefulpete
Did The Witnesses Predict the United Nations in Advance?
I linked the above thread as it details what was actually taught and when.
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Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower
by Indoubtbigtime ini’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.
they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.
they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.
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peacefulpete
Indoubtbigtime.....Never Forget the Importance of Being Earnest.
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Hell, what is it
by Anony Mous inso perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.
and the bible provides confirmation for this.
at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.
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peacefulpete
You have a nice manner and voice.
I think you have read into the shrewd manager story. The characters are explained to be "people of this world" not God and his worshipers. The parallel of those characters in the story to Christians was simply to stress using your riches to gain favor with God like the shrewd manager in a 'worldly' way gained favor with potential employers. The shrewd way he went about it was respected by his 'worldly' master because that's the unethical characterization of "people of this world" being made. He has depicted people of this world as selfish but wisely considering the future.
As far as the Rich man parable, if you are right and the writer of Luke wanted readers to grasp that it was all a clever twist of the prevailing beliefs of the afterlife, then he was just too clever.
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Hell, what is it
by Anony Mous inso perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.
and the bible provides confirmation for this.
at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.
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peacefulpete
Vanderhoven.... First, writing a book has always been an ambition of mine but life had always gotten in the way, so good on you for accomplishing that. My earlier comment was prefaced by saying, "Jewish notions of death were hardly uniform", and perhaps I should have expanded upon that.
Yes what we seem to know about the Sadducee movement was a denial of a meaningful afterlife (or resurrection), while apparently still accepting the idea of shades existing in Sheol/Hades. That's quite natural as they did not recognize works like Daniel and Enoch.
The Pharisee movement seemed to be more in line with the larger Jewish world in accepting the intertestamental doctrine of resurrection. The Essenes likewise believed in immortal soul that would be rewarded.
The Gospels depict Jesus as pretty much quoting works of this late period, like Enoch and Daniel, in comments about the resurrection, in his rich man parable as well as his Gehenna warning. Jude directly quotes Enoch. Revelation carries this same concept quite clearly. A straightforward reading of the NT leads to the conclusion that Christians had fully embraced the concept of an afterlife reward or punishment in darkness and fire. The immediacy of that outcome seems to have varied in specifics, but the overall concept was pretty consistent.
In this more progressive age this doctrine has become a bit of an albatross and as a result it's become more popular to argue for it not being a Biblical idea. To do that usually they draw from OT texts written by earlier writers before the doctrine of resurrection was (possibly) adopted from the Zoroastrians, as if this proves later Jews did not believe it.
Next, they have to dismiss passages in the NT that clearly express this thought, usually by labeling them as metaphor or symbolism, or in the case of the rich man parable, declare since it was a parable it wasn't a reflection of beliefs. As if that somehow makes sense.
I respect anyone who rejects the concept as barbaric and vengeful but am perplexed by those who dismiss the doctrine while clinging to the writings that teach it.