Posts by peacefulpete

12

Should Social Media Silence Conservative Views?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i find it very disturbing that media outlets as well as facebook, instagram, google and others decide that a point of view is not acceptable simply because they don’t share an opinion.

perhaps it is at least right now but i think it’s very wrong.

what’s your view?

peacefulpete

Privately or corporately owned forums can legally protect their domain from dialog that is deemed harmful to public good or simply to prevent legal liability. They can go further and even impose a value of civility. Its akin to your workplace rules that enable employers to impose standards of appearance and conduct up to a point. The internet has changed from simple information exchange to a largely anonymous ideological megaphone. As the internet has grown people shifted from discussion forums to echo chambers. The crowd has moved to the corners and lob insults and lies at each other. Media outlets are struggling with the reality that they are complicit if they make no effort to remove disinformation that threatens public health, endorses violence, seeks to subvert fair elections or promote racist hate (whoever is saying it), When jihadists post disinformation about Western nations or post slick recruitment videos we all concur they should be removed. When bots spread unfounded harmful slander to subvert national security, when dangerous stunts like poison Tide pod challenge videos are posted, etc. media platforms rightly respond with removal of the posting or closing accounts.

So to answer your question, : Should Social Media Silence Conservative Views?

It depends upon the view being spread by the conservative. If the conservative is discussing the relative importance of free trade as opposed to tariffs or is encouraging celibacy before marriage, or is arguing for the private ownership of guns, it is very unlikely to be silenced. Unfortunately what is sometimes presented as a "conservative view" is actually just plain old political lies, inciting violence or racism being spread by a conservative. I have seen the similar approach by posters identifying as liberal while retweeting or sharing disinformation. They have been flagged as well. One account I know was closed for repeat offenses.

36

What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

seeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.

i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).

in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.

peacefulpete

Yep, the large reference bible and the concordance helped many with an inclination to study to see past the mirage. It was a mistake for them to encourage research that way. I don't think they will repeat that.

I will add that the huge bonfire I had was cathartic. I don't miss any of it, and I had everything from the 1910's till the then present, even a few earlier WT's. Sometimes I have wished I'd spared the crazy early calendars with the devil with horns cavorting with fat clergy and politicians being slashed by angels to share on the web.

12

Tsunamis and Volcanos: why?

by StephaneLaliberte in

volcano eruptions and tsunamis kill at large scale and very often, without warning.

how do believers explain these away?

jehovah's witnesses say that humans die and suffer due to the original sin, but what do volcano's and tsunamis have to do with it?

peacefulpete

Earliest for of Yahweh worship saw all the destructive forces of nature to be aspects of Yahweh himself. In story after story he uses these natural forces to kill like extensions of himself. Fire and sulphur falling, clearly a volcano eruption. Earth opening up and swallowing people, earthquakes. Hail, floods, disease, Later reformers saw these forces as not aspects of the divine person but as merely tools at his disposal. That's why at 1 Kings 19 the redactor added the interrupting words ("but Yahweh was not in the wind...was not in the earthquake"). Later, the book of Job written quite late is in fact a philosophical rebuttal to the notion of a loving god using these weapons at all. Theological evolution away from simple animism has elevated god to being a bystander.

30

Do you think “Eventually” the Whole World will become Socialist?

by pistolpete in

when i say; “socialist” i don’t mean everyone is equal.

instead i am referring to “leaders” being rich and powerful, whereas the ordinary citizen being poor, and powerless.. i was surprise that the majority of the world is run by socialist government.

the last few countries that are not socialist are the united states and parts of europe.

peacefulpete

Small c capitalism is as old and demonstrably useful as civilization itself. A person earns a living by effort and the products of that effort are valuable. Big C Capitalism is a specific economic theory that often has quasi religious connotations with insistence that markets alone can resolve societies' needs. The various forms of economic models all fall on a spectrum between strict Capitalism and ridged collectivism (sharing of everything). Never has there been a society that wholly dismissed the role of individual efforts to better their means and never has there been a society that wholly dismissed the need for social safety nets.

3

Walls of Jerusalem

by peacefulpete in

judaism of late antiquity was rife with schisms and sects.

it was a time bursting with religious ingenuity fueled by desperation and disappointment.

through extensive exegesis many had formulated detailed predictions of what a jewish messiah would be like and do to demonstrate his credentials.

peacefulpete

Phizzy, I appreciate the comment. I'm not sure I'd entirely agree with the lateness of the Messiah concept as it seems to me as old as man himself. The Moses and Joshua characters e.g. resonated with audiences centuries before the Seleucid period. But I'd agree that this came to a fevered pitch after that time. The eventual loss of the Temple precipitated a shift away from literal messianism, engaging in the liberation of Israel, toward the mystery faith forms of individualized salvation Messianism.

The various elements drawn from patriarchal tales and legend gelled into a fairly established motif, a Messiah Cycle, a template of expectations by the time of Christianity's launch. It was still useful after the loss of the Temple worship by those who no longer anticipated a military salvation. I've been reading a reprint of Schonfield's 'The lost Nativity of John' ( I had a signed original but gifted it to Narkissos years ago. (who I miss very much). His work impresses me still. The Messiah birth and concealment was a favorite aspect of the popular expectation and applied to JtheB in both Mandaean and Christian works then secondarily transferred to Jesus through the Markan revisions in Matt and Luke. Clearly most directly paralleled with the Moses story but much more ancient in concept (Sargon?). His work on this combined with recent reconstructions by R.Carrier (et al) has cemented my view that the earliest Gospel form was not technically a deliberate euhemerization of a mystical Christ (slightly different than Carrier) but a brilliant utilization of preexisting story elements for homiletic usage. A tale filled with symbolism and secret meaning. The author of Mark (ch.4) outright tells us this through his parable story in which he in effect tells his reader that everything in his story is in fact a parable. Parables within a parable meant to be comprehended only by those with understanding of the mystery.

30

Do you think “Eventually” the Whole World will become Socialist?

by pistolpete in

when i say; “socialist” i don’t mean everyone is equal.

instead i am referring to “leaders” being rich and powerful, whereas the ordinary citizen being poor, and powerless.. i was surprise that the majority of the world is run by socialist government.

the last few countries that are not socialist are the united states and parts of europe.

peacefulpete

First off... and really should not need to be said...every man and woman values "freedom" (tm), therefore the word itself is a common ground. Every person values "freedom", the armies on any side of any war fights for "freedom" in some sense. So when I have discussions about issues like healthcare and taxes I assume my audience values "freedom" as much as I do.

I will also unhesitatingly say everyone I know, cares about others. So that too is a common ground. Yes, shocking I know, but everyone values basic freedoms and wants to do right by their neighbors. (Rare genuine sociopaths aside). If any discussion can begin, all participants need to pause and recognize those 2 things.

Next, as another poster said, forms of government are extremely diverse and no two nations have ever struck the same balances or defined terminology identically. Every government is and has been unique, striking different balances and experimenting with best practice toward the same goals. Each different, having strengths and weaknesses as judged by their success facilitating a high quality of life for its people. Pigeon-holing these widely diverse approaches to government into a few broad categories is mental laziness that none of us want to be guilty of that, do we?

Back to the initial question then; Is true that more of the world's population lives under greater tyranny than previous eras? That is hardly the case. Autocrats today are deemed pariahs by most of the world. Never have common people had as much self determination. So the question really is,.. What have a growing number of people determined to be the best way to promote quality of life, maintain freedom and still do right by their neighbor? The answer.....many have democratically chosen to work as a society to achieve goals to a greater extent than the U.S. Well, maybe that is itself oversimplifying. The people of the US overwhelmingly support a national healthcare program for all Americans not just those over 65. (Polls 60-70% agree). So since even most Americans see the value of changing this failing employer-provided-insurance experiment to a more efficient nationally facilitated program, what is preventing it from happening? Special interest money maybe?

What's also rather ironic is we already have collective health programs called health insurance. The difference is now we have the added expense of ceos making unprecedented profits with motivation to decline coverage for those who need it. Aside from that aspect, the concept is identical, the costs of insurance is an average of the expenses of the millions insured. Sick people get a break on the actual costs of their care because healthy people are paying more for coverage than they spend. I don't see national health care as some radical break from what we are doing, it's just being done more humanely and efficiently. It is a fact that there is no way to make money insuring sick and elderly so large groups of people agree that they will pay more in premiums to cover them now while also understanding their owns needs may change in the future.

Consider, when the US revolted and began its experiment in self government, its wisest men looked to the Magna Carta for most of the material for the new nation's own Constitution. To me this was true brilliance, to see the good aspects in even the government you were at war with. We can learn much from other nations and the balances they have struck. I'd like to think America can come up with an even better solution, I hope so. Whatever we do it will be imperfect and whatever we do it will require thinking as a society and has to balance freedoms with doing right by our neighbor.

13

If you leave the WT and don’t get vaccinated, you will still have the virus and keep getting sick

by pistolpete in

so the past couple of years, i’ve read several stories about jws who left the organization at an early age because they knew something wasn’t right------but they never bothered to research the religion.

there was this feeling that the watchtower was not god’s only channel.

so they left at an early age.

peacefulpete

longhairgal,.......... glad to hear it. I will add that only that distrust and contempt of higher education is a rather typical characteristic of Fundamentalism.

3

Walls of Jerusalem

by peacefulpete in

judaism of late antiquity was rife with schisms and sects.

it was a time bursting with religious ingenuity fueled by desperation and disappointment.

through extensive exegesis many had formulated detailed predictions of what a jewish messiah would be like and do to demonstrate his credentials.

peacefulpete

OK, I was too slow to change the title. I shifted to a different theme.

3

Walls of Jerusalem

by peacefulpete in

judaism of late antiquity was rife with schisms and sects.

it was a time bursting with religious ingenuity fueled by desperation and disappointment.

through extensive exegesis many had formulated detailed predictions of what a jewish messiah would be like and do to demonstrate his credentials.

peacefulpete

Judaism of late antiquity was rife with schisms and sects. It was a time bursting with religious ingenuity fueled by desperation and disappointment. Through extensive exegesis many had formulated detailed predictions of what a Jewish Messiah would be like and do to demonstrate his credentials. OT passages were not only given new enhanced meaning they were downright wrung of any drip of messianic portent. Also, a popular imagining was the repetition of specific OT scenes such as power over waters, raising dead, fasting 40 days, even miraculously destroying a city's walls. A "Messiah Cycle" a widely held pattern or story board of sorts became established through many years of repetition, eventually details of what the Messiah would do and come from cemented into a motif. The OT itself did not in any obvious way direct readers to so speculate, but to the eyes of desperate creative minds the verses were speaking volumes not actually in the text. The messianic texts of Qumran are a classic of such ingenuity. Rabbinic works are teeming with this stuff as well. Josephus recounts quite a few would-be Messiahs, including details such as their promising to split the waters of the Jordan or make the walls of Jerusalem to crumble. Readers of the book of Mark and it's expansions in Matt, Luke and even John can't help but see these OT allusions and repetitions. The OT was mined for story elements of the ancient messianic figures, especially Moses, Samuel, Elisha/Elijah. What to modern literalist readers might appear as incredible miraculous prophetic fulfillments (even when no prophesy existed) are actually typological window dressing for the story.

A neat example, new to me, is what was not so much an OT text itself but a legend associated with the OT story of the Egypt exile. A popular elaboration on the story has the tribe of Ephraim escaping Egypt early and trying to capture the promised land but failing to do so. The Leader/Messiah was named Messiah ben (son of) Joseph. He was a builder/craftsman.

This tradition spawned messianic speculation that a future Messiah who, while heroic in his efforts, is killed in battle with the forces of evil. The Messiah ben David, then comes to complete the conquest. It certainly fits the pattern of Jesus son of Joseph, the man who tries to save Israel but fails and is killed. But as Jesus son of David the conquering king he saves he world. Wiki has a nice page on this: Messiah ben Joseph - Wikipedia

If anyone has an example to share we can discuss it.

13

If you leave the WT and don’t get vaccinated, you will still have the virus and keep getting sick

by pistolpete in

so the past couple of years, i’ve read several stories about jws who left the organization at an early age because they knew something wasn’t right------but they never bothered to research the religion.

there was this feeling that the watchtower was not god’s only channel.

so they left at an early age.

peacefulpete

Absolutely true. We have seen it repeatedly. People who have been out of the direct control of the religion but are years later yet harboring unhealthy sectarian fears and feelings of inadequacy. IMO objectively examining the Bible itself has even greater inoculation value than just analyzing this one particular sect. I just reconnected with a childhood friend who has managed to free himself from this one church only to be drawn to another with similar intellectual dishonesty.