Posts by Phizzy

20

Chosen

by Gman2001 in

how exactly did jehovah come down to earth in 1919....look around at all the religions....and choose the bible students?

.

Phizzy

According to the J.W org. it was Jesus that did that. There are two problems at least with this totally insane teaching. One is of the date, the other of simple Logic.

As to the time when Jesus is supposed to have done this, it is based upon the orgs. 1914 teaching, which has been totally discredited and debunked from all angles. It really is absolutely wacky.

Hence the choosing by Jesus could NOT have happened.

The second reason, based on logic , was pointed out by Ry Franz in one of his Books that he wrote in the early 1980's. He said, and this is from memory so not word for word , remarking on the part of the orgs. claim that the Rutherford Bible Students of the day were approved because of the "Bible Truth" they were teaching at the time :

" To claim that Jesus chose that group at that time, based upon what they were then teaching, is an Insult to Jesus".

Just a cursory look at what they were teaching then shows you how true that is ! What they taught as "truth" then has all been rejected by THEM since ! Would Jesus select a group teaching lies as "truth" ?.

The problem the org. has is, if Jesus did not then, or ever , choose them , then the Governing Body are :

SELF APPOINTED CHARLATANS !!

18

Why worship a God that does not help!

by Witness 007 in

so god let 10 million people die in world war 2 but was too busy to help....what kind of diety does this!

if i was god i would have done something .

Phizzy

" is this god you are referring to the same one that all these Islamics worship? "

Absolutely ! The YHWH of the Israelites, the jews, Christians and of Islam is the SAME god !

And like all gods, does not exist, and never has, all gods were made up by men.

This particular god is a stark example of that, as we know exactly in History when he was made up, we know which peoples did so, and when he was introduced to the Israelites by those peoples. *

Eventually after a few Centuries he came to be viewed as the only god who should be worshipped.

So , the Thread Title should be "Why worship a god that does not exist ? "

* See the Book "The Early History of God" by Professor Mark. S. Smith.

22

Re: Russell's connection to Masons and Secret Societies

by Enlightened1 in

our history is not what we have been taught.

the golden dawn history.

we see that russell was involved with freemasonry and used freemasonry symbols on his earlier magazines.

Phizzy

Lack of knowledge in other areas has no bearing upon Russell's supposed but unproven "connection" to Freemasonry, or anything else.

23

1/2 of the Jehovah’s witnesses have gone

by hoser in

jw
friends

there are 1/2 of the jehovah’s witnesses that there were 30 years ago in my area.

some have left but i think that many have died and none of their kids stayed being jehovah’s witnesses.

7 congregations have been dissolved over the years.

Phizzy

Thanks Stephane, your perceptive Post, which is so true, has also brought me comfort, in that I have berated myself for not having fully "woken up" earlier in life than I did, but thinking on what you said, your Post describes what happened to me, suppressing Cognitive Dissonance etc. and explains how otherwise very intelligent and well educated ( in matters non-J.W ) people still remain entrapped.

The very important part of your Post is :

That we must not " overlook the sophisticated and manipulative mechanisms that such movements use to maintain control ."

15

What "message" does the J.W Org. have to offer that will attract new members ?

by Phizzy in

the message they have been pushing for 150 years or so is "the end is near !"..

in the educated, civilised world, people think " yea ?

maybe because of economic meltdown exacerbated by climate change, but not from some intervention by a non-existent god".. "would you like a free bible study ?

Phizzy

Van's summary is indeed their teaching in a nutshell, where it belongs, being a "Nutty" message !

Van said "But if they kill themselves before the GT starts, they will get an automatic resurrection pass to paradise where they will learn Jehovah’s Witnesses were right all along."

So, really the best thing J.W's could do for people is take a hand-gun to the door and shoot the Householder in the head ? LOL.

And that the "J.W's were right all along" will happen, is a very prevalent belief among the R&F J.W's, I heard that many times, and can remember doubting it at the beginning of my "Waking Up".

And yes Biahi, "Join or Die" is even more succinct ! But of course, that has been the message of all Looney fringe Christian groups, for many long decades, hence the Cartoons with "The End is Nigh" etc. Again, not a message that will attract new converts, here in the U.K if people are told that, even wrapped up in J.W speak, they think, and sometimes say, " Oh F*** Off !".

25

Special Talk just prior to the Memorial

by Acluetofindtheuser in

is the sunday special talk prior to the memorial just an introduction of a new outline for the sunday public talks?.

is it an attempt to get the faders back to the meetings?

they present in a way like some new light is going to be presented at the special talk..

Phizzy

" The only thing "special" about a "special" talk is that ...it never is special." :smile:

True that ! I only once or twice in all the years I attended heard a "Special" talk that was well presented by a talented speaker, but even then the content was just a big nothing.

It will no doubt be the same with the "Special" Talk announced for September, but the timing of that makes me wonder if they are perhaps about to slip something in, a bit of "Noo Lite" ?

If those Talks are "special" what the actual f*** does that make the weekly ones ?

As per my Thread about "What Do They Have.... " The truth is they have no message, and nothing new to offer.

15

What "message" does the J.W Org. have to offer that will attract new members ?

by Phizzy in

the message they have been pushing for 150 years or so is "the end is near !"..

in the educated, civilised world, people think " yea ?

maybe because of economic meltdown exacerbated by climate change, but not from some intervention by a non-existent god".. "would you like a free bible study ?

Phizzy

I understand r51785, when my Country, the U.K, is criticised in any way my immediate reaction is to bristle, and yet I have never been nationalistic or even proud of my Country, but I then consider what the criticism is saying, and if valid, will smile ruefully and move on.

What strikes me about the lack of any "message" is that the G.B and their advisors have run out of ideas.

What this does is leave ordinary J.W's " marking time", literally to satisfy their Elders, but metaphorically, they must be aware on some level that the D to D work, and more so the Cart Work, are a Total Waste of Time, that they are merely doing what they do to be "seen" in public.

It is the equivalent of the False Policeman , a figure or image of a Policeman, to make people think, but there is no real Policeman for miles, and the "work" they do is as soul destroying as peeling piles of potatoes day after day.

Combine that pointless, stultifying work with boring Meetings, and they have no way of attracting new members in any significant number, and J.W's will either die waiting for "The End", or more likely die before that .......... of Frustration and Boredom.

15

What "message" does the J.W Org. have to offer that will attract new members ?

by Phizzy in

the message they have been pushing for 150 years or so is "the end is near !"..

in the educated, civilised world, people think " yea ?

maybe because of economic meltdown exacerbated by climate change, but not from some intervention by a non-existent god".. "would you like a free bible study ?

Phizzy

The message they have been pushing for 150 years or so is "The End is near !".

In the educated, civilised world, people think " Yea ? maybe because of economic meltdown exacerbated by climate change, but not from some intervention by a non-existent god".

"Would you like a Free Bible Study ? ", " No thanks, that is just a book of fairy stories, myths, lies and legends. "

That is the reaction of all young people in the educated free world, which excludes the USA of course, which is neither free nor educated, and is stuck in some 19th Century time warp, and is a virtual Theocracy.

But elsewhere in the world, respect for the religion, and the Bible, is gone.

In the third world, which has little education or Internet access, they have some success, but only usually with very poor people over 40.

So as well as dwindling numbers, they have at present a Cash Flow problem, which can only get larger.

The J.W Org. days are numbered, and they will soon be an even more insignificant little cult, that is withering away fast.

23

3 Changes The Watchtower Made on Babylon The Great in the Last 6 Months

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/vpws6ncqpla?si=dqnf7-hupfr4pdta.

for decades, jehovah’s witnesses have been banging on about babylon the great—the so-called world empire of false religion—being on the brink of collapse.

any day now, they assured us, churches would empty out, priests would be left twiddling their thumbs, and humanity would collectively bin organised religion.

Phizzy

" Could this be a strategic move to appear more respectable and mainstream? "

That is EXACTLY what they are doing now with EVERY move they make.

In Rutherford's day and later, being "different" was an advantage, they could say "We are not like False Religion".

Their having seen the growing success of the religions they label as "false", ( as if theirs is true LOL), has prompted them to run after and try to leap on the Bandwagon, far too late as usual of course.

What the G.B and their advisors have not grasped is that in the Educated World that has good Internet access, ALL organised religion is withering away, people no longer see a need for it in their daily or weekly lives. But the very narrow, parochial view, from deep within the USA, that the G.B has ,prevents them from seeing that.

They are trying to get a slice of a dried up, and getting ever smaller Cake, they will not succeed.

11

First Time Ever..

by blondie in

jw
friends

i received a phone call from a jw inviting me to the "special talk.

" in 25 years out, never happened, don't know them, phone # nowhere near me and it was like she was reading from a script.

i hung up... any one else?.

Phizzy

Yes, "massaging" the numbers goes on, and it always did, so a comparison of two sets of fiddled numbers would still be revealing.

But I learned only yesterday that both the Congregations I mentioned have had an influx, but it is strange, unless you know the Congregations well, the "new" members are all J.W''s from elsewhere, many who had moved away years ago, and moved back, especially once they had retired. One Elder was disfellowshipped a couple of decades ago for adultery with his now wife, he has two kids now too. Another "dodgy" couple have joined, he was never baptised, but got a young sister to live with him for a few years. He is now married to someone else.

So, if I did get the figures, and they matched or even slightly exceeded those of two or so decades ago, it would really show a situation in real terms of " no growth".

I think it is evident that no Real growth comes from the public in the western World at least, only from children growing up in it.