flamegrilled

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Posts by flamegrilled

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  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

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  flamegrilled

  So you are saying your reply in the situation above would be:

  If you were super-intelligent and/or super-sentinent I would say you did nothing wrong in leaving the boy to die in the woods because in that case you *might* have an *unknown* reason for doing so.

  No. I'm saying that Cofty couldn't logcally conclude that you didn't exist, or perhaps more specifically that he shouldn't conclude that he has access to more information than you do if you are a super-intelligent and/or super-sentient being.

  Now if there is no evidence to the contrary then based upon this information alone if we have to reach a decision then we are probably going to judge you as bad. I grant that.

  The difference with God and the tsunami is first of all that a theist will not acknowledge that there is no evidence to the contrary. Also we do have the option of reserving judgement.

  [have hit posting limit]
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  bohn - you are a being of roughly equal intelligence and sentience to me and the hypothetical judge. That is a very different scenario to the one under discussion.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  "we don't know what we can't know" = it's a mystery

  I accept that this crudely describes the argument. As I said before if we are just crudely reframing the opposing view then Cofty's is "if god exists he dun it". It's an assertion. It's not based on anything logical.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  because *there might* be some unknown cost associated with him preventing them from drowning?

  Can you point to what this may be exactly in the case of God?

  What part of "unknown" is unclear to you?
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  bohm -

  Your point is that weak analogies exist??
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  You have argued for 80 pages that drowning a quarter of a million people is a loving act if seen from some other perspective. Cofty

  Actually I came into this after page 50.

  Let's recall that I have not at any point argued for the existance of God, let alone made the argument you claim. My sole point is that the OP is logically flawed.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  You must be surrounded by weak-minded people, flamegrilled.

  jgnat - I know what you mean. But I'll log off soon and do some work.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  If we saw a person allow dogs to be drowned by the thousands, and he was able to prevent it at no significant cost or effort, would we be justified in concluding there was a problem in claiming he loved every single dog? (bohm)

  Again your scenario implies an unsubstantiated premise. i.e. that there would be no significant cost to preventing it. We are simply not in a position to know that.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  I know you were making a demonstration, flamegrilled, but at your own admission I'm a fairly intelligent woman. Your dissiing of my approach pretty well kills any desire on my part to engage you in dialogue. I don't care if you feel the same way. Man up and deal with the issues put before you.

  It was evident from your first comment that you were not interested in dialogue so nothing much has changed. My estimate of your intelligence was made prior to your declaring the analogy as weak. If you truly didn't understand the analogy and its limitations then I may have been wrong about that. Either you didn't bother to consider it or you are just jumping on the bandwagon of Cofty's posse who cry "weak/broken analogy" every time they don't like a conclusion.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  flamegrilled

  Since we ae drowning in metaphors here is one more. Consider a woman who discovers after her wedding, that the man she had come to know as loving and generous was actually an abusive and violent husband.

  It's difficult to know what you are arguing for at times Cofty. An absence of God, or an abusive god?

  You claim that you have all the facts necessary to make a life and death decision, but if God exists then by definition you are missing information which may be relevant. That is not so in the case of the wife of an abusive husband.