Londo111

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Posts by Londo111

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  20

  Do you have J-dar?

  by JWdaughter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  today at work i had an interesting set of co workers.

  one was telling us about her side job selling sex toys(also a l&d nurse).

  the other one, very beautiful, intelligent woman told us of her 2 kids.

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  Londo111

  Yep...I remember as a JW, I thought a classmate was also a JW. Turned out she was.

  There are definitely subconscious cues being picked up.
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  37

  What’s the deal with all the Smart-Educated JWs?

  by John Aquila in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we talk a lot about most jws being uneducated, uninformed, and that they lack critical thinking skills, but in my area there is a lot of jws that went to the university, medical school, law school, and came back to the organization.

  in my circuit, that i know of, we had two electrical engineers, one computer engineer with a ph.d. eight teachers with a bachelors degree and three of those with a masters in education.

  we had two medical doctors, one was a pediatrician who closed his business about 3 years ago and went to bethel.

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  Londo111

  Back in my koolaid days, when discussing why we 'knew' we had the truth, a born-in person with a PhD, a scientist no less, did not focus on anything concrete, like doctrine. He basically pointed to nebulous things, like “the brotherhood” and “the worldwide work”, such as the same work being organized and uniform in hundreds of countries, or helping out after a natural disaster.

  Even then, I could see other organizations that could claim much the same things and that the JWs were not unique in this.
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  37

  What’s the deal with all the Smart-Educated JWs?

  by John Aquila in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we talk a lot about most jws being uneducated, uninformed, and that they lack critical thinking skills, but in my area there is a lot of jws that went to the university, medical school, law school, and came back to the organization.

  in my circuit, that i know of, we had two electrical engineers, one computer engineer with a ph.d. eight teachers with a bachelors degree and three of those with a masters in education.

  we had two medical doctors, one was a pediatrician who closed his business about 3 years ago and went to bethel.

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  Londo111

  As Steven Hassan pointed out, it is a fallacy that only uneducated or unintelligent people fall prey to cults. In one book, I forgot that exact wording, he said that the more intelligent a cult member is, the more creatively they can rationalize in ways that even the leadership did not come up with.

  I don't know much about martial arts, but it's sort of like a mental judo, where a person's strengths are turned against them.
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  120

  The right to shun - wrong?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

  it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

  of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

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  Londo111

  I agree with freemindfade. Remove tax exempt status for any group who promotes shunning, discrimination or hate.

  In fact, why not go one step beyond that? A carrot and stick approach: such an organization would incur tax penalties for promoting shunning. If they change, they can be exempt, maybe even given a carrot of some kind. If a group continues to promote hate, be they the Watchtower, Scientology, or the KKK: tax them into the ground!

  One problem is that organizations seem to have more freedoms than individuals do, including the individuals within those same organizations. It's time to recognize the freedoms and rights of individuals over that of soulless organizations.
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  225

  Cult or Religion

  by Richard C B in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is a cult and what is a religion?

  its open to debate.

  who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

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  Londo111

  Yes, even with fading friends (and family) will keep their distance until virtually one might as well be DFed.
• 
  225

  Cult or Religion

  by Richard C B in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is a cult and what is a religion?

  its open to debate.

  who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

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  Londo111

  Richard:

  Again, I believe if you read a few unbiased books on the subject, like Combating Cult Mind Control, you will be in a better position to discuss this matter.

  Someone posted this link that quotes JW publications, but I believe I will post it again for your benefit. When you are a JW can you question the leadership?

  Read this:

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php
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  225

  Cult or Religion

  by Richard C B in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is a cult and what is a religion?

  its open to debate.

  who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

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  Londo111

  I agree. I would never use the c-word with a JW...unless they are awakening and ready to hear it.
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  225

  Cult or Religion

  by Richard C B in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is a cult and what is a religion?

  its open to debate.

  who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

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  Londo111

  No, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a cult.

  (You had me at No! Case closed! BTW...what cult would agree that they are a cult? They all say:“Trust us, we are not a cult!” They might even be sincere in saying it, but it doesn’t neccararilly change the truth of the matter.

  Rather, we are Christians who do our best to follow the example set by Jesus Christ and to live by his teachings. (As are many Christian groups, including some who have left the JW organization)

  What is a cult? (Let’s define the word for you and then prove that we do not meet the definition we provided)

  The term “cult” means different things to different people. (True…which is why the best people to consult would be those who study cults, like Hassan, Lipton, Festinger and other trained professionals, rather than say...Joe Sixpack)

  However, consider two common perceptions regarding cults and why those perceptions don’t apply to us. (again, selecting two perceptions rather than focusing on what trained professionals mean when they say cult)

  Some think of a cult as being a new or unorthodox religion. (Yet as Steven Hassan has pointed out, a cult is not a group with unusual beliefs, but the level of control and undue influence)

  Jehovah’s Witnesses have not invented a new religion. On the contrary, we pattern our worship after that of the first-century Christians, whose example and teachings were recorded in the Bible. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) We believe that the Holy Scriptures should be the authority on what is orthodox in matters of worship. (This is the claim of many religious organizations. Of course, it is not the Bible that is the authority, but the interpretation of the Bible as provided by the Governing Body…plus whatever other edicts they hand down that have no justification at all from Scripture)

  Some think of a cult as being a dangerous religious sect with a human leader. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not look to any human as their leader. Rather, we adhere to the standard that Jesus set for his followers when he stated: “Your Leader is one, the Christ.”—Matthew 23:10.

  This definition strikes closer to the truth and JWs meet it 100%. While lip service is giving that Christ is leader and nobody else, in practice the organization has a very pronounced hierarchy of religious leaders: elders, circuit overseers, branch overseers, that all answer to the Governing Body. JWs ultimately follow the Governing Body and if they do not (or simply it becomes known they do not believe they are God’s sole channel) they are shunned by their friends and family.

  Whenever a JW mentions the Governing Body or a member of the Governing Body, you can often hear the reverence in their voice. If someone gives honest criticism toward them, a JW will react very harshly. While the Governing Body has been a composite leader since 1975, before that the Org was ruled by its charismatic Presidents: Russell, Rutherford, Knorr/Franz. One man as leader vs a small group of men: that does not make a difference.

  Far from being a dangerous cult, Jehovah’s Witnesses practice a religion that benefits its members and others in the community.

  (Tens of thousands dead due to the blood transfusion ban and other bans over the decades on fractions and organ transplants, suicides due to shunning, families and friendships broken, the pressure to avoid higher education and make other life choices…it is a dangerous group. Perhaps one of the most dangerous cults in modern times).

  For example, our ministry has helped many people to overcome harmful addictions, such as the abuse of drugs and alcohol.

  Other groups (even cults) can claim the same. The People’s Temple helped people in this regard! Look at what happened to them in Jonestown.

  In addition, we conduct literacy classes around the world, helping thousands learn to read and write.

  Yes, but the catch is that there is an agenda to converting people. Other groups help people without any agenda, just purely to help people…I know, I was involved in the Micah Initiative for a couple years.

  And we are actively involved in disaster relief. We work hard to have a positive impact on others, just as Jesus commanded his followers to do.—Matthew 5:13-16.

  Many groups are involved in disaster relief too, but don’t try to milk the PR from it. Often, take Hurricane Andrew or Katrina for example, mostly JWs are helped and then “encouraged” to send their insurance check to Watchtower.
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  225

  Cult or Religion

  by Richard C B in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is a cult and what is a religion?

  its open to debate.

  who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

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  Londo111

  “Bad associations spoil useful habits.”
  

  "He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, he that is having dealings with the stupid person will fair badly."

  Here even Scripture shows that our association influences us for good or ill. The pressure to conform to JW teachings does not solely come from within due to misinterpretation. The message has often been clear at every meeting and assembly: "Can you do more?" What you are doing is never enough, it's never quality enough. You might be doing this, but are you doing that? If a person does not see this pressure is coming from the top-down, they are not listening at the meetings.

  In the Watchtower org, a person's social standing is often dependent on how well they perform and how much they conform.
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  225

  Cult or Religion

  by Richard C B in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is a cult and what is a religion?

  its open to debate.

  who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

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  Londo111

  In terms of people being benefited by joining the Watchtower…people also benefited by joining the People’s Temple. Some were former drug dealers or users and joining helped them break their addictions and bad behavior. The group mobilized and did good works on behalf of the community. People were impressed. However, knowing what we know now, what was there end?