Posts by scotoma

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

Vidiot:

Let's take a closer look at your "ridiculous" maxim.

If ANYONE says ridiculous things then they deserve to be ridiculed.

What if the person is a child in the company of adults? The child says something that is absurd. Therefore the adults ought to poke fun of him?

What if a person is unsophisticated and says something that is out of synch with their sophisticated associates. The group ought to laugh at them?

What if a person is from another country and gets his wording mixed up so the meaning of their expression is odd. Should someone say "don't you mean (...fill in the blank) Ha Ha Ha.

Ridicule is a gleeful condemnation of an individual. Ridicule is not directed at the words a person says or a particular assertion - it is a cruel mean spirited attack on the person.

Those who engage in ridicule are trying to return evil for evil. Ridicule dehumanizes individuals. It is a prelude to murder, assault, and war.

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

DJS:

You have a control problem. Do you understand that we all do what we want on these forums within the parameters of the POSTING GUIDELINES.

We don't need YOUR permission to do what we are going to do. We don't need your permission to do something if it makes us feel better.

We all do things all the time because it makes us feel better. The people I enjoy being around don't tell me to move on. That's obnoxious and is hierchical dominance behavior.

You would have made a great elder or any other position where you can "dictate".

I think you are beating this thread to death - or at least trying to beat me in some way.

I don't submit to primitive dominance.

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

After reading the original question: Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society? I would answer NO! It's not wrong.

But if you are trying to "sell" something any salesman knows that ridiculing the competitor will not generate a customer.

Leave it to a guy like Rutheford to think that "Religion is a snare and a racket" is the best approach.

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

DJS

I don't need you to tell me to quit posting.

Everything is a conscience matter.

It depends on what your objective is. It appears that your objective is to bully people off a thread.

I prefer to continue to post whether people like it or not.

There is nothing in the rules of this forum that says you need the approval of some "majority" of participants to continue the discussion.

This is kind of like inducing the practice of shunning. The reason I don't like JW's is that very tendency to bully people.

There are others that aren't posting and you don't know how they feel.

You display all the characteristics of an authoritarian personality. "It's my way or the highway".

Fortunately these forums aren't popularity contests.

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

Mockery as therapy for x-JW's

Mockery as an accusatory stance is NOT a healthy way of dealing with the problem. It is a way of relieving oneself of personal responsibility by blaming the organization. It may be a first step when you are angry and frustrated but it is important to understand your own agency in the matter.

To get out of the blame shifting we need to use languge that indicates we know our own role in being deceived.

For example: Those stupid JW's actually believe that 2 million Israelites wandered for 40 years fertilizing the Sinai with their excrement, their animals excrement and left no evidence that they were ever there. (choose your myth)

This statement should include statements such as "and I was stupid enough to believe it" Or you could generalize things and say "Those stupid "Fundies" believed.... and I was stupid too!

How smart was Ray Franz? He wrote his books about JW's and they were peppered with references to logical fallacies , yet HE believed the miracles and couldn't accept evolution.

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

Backseatdevil: The problem is that most of the people on this board at one time actually believed all of that and all the ridicule in the world wouldn't have changed their mind. And those who think ridicule and mocking is useful are merely relieving their own tension while not really emancipating anyone from their mental slavery.

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

You've got to be really dumb to fall for the watchtower. So mock yourself. Ridicule yourself for lacking ordinary reasoning skills. You can't help it that you have such a low IQ that you couldn't figure it out. So you blame the fool. But you followed the fool. When the blind lead the blind they both fall into the pit. So there you are - both blind leader and blind followers wallowing in self pitty. And now out of desperation you hurl insults at people who are deaf.

Like two year olds you whine "But, youuuu dooooo it toooooooo" It's like listening to x NFL players with more money than they know how to spend crying about "Why didn't the NFL tell us that if we use our skulls as smashing tools it's going to turn our brains to jelly". Duhhh. I mean really Duhhhh!

So at what point did your two brain cells figure out that the Watchtower is wrong?

You poor pathetic misled souls.

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

Rubadub Aha!!!

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

As a parent of 4 children I encountered the "You do it too" argument all of the time.

It is a childish argument and it is no less childish for adults to use it.

Just because some people engage in a questionable behavior such as mocking or ridicule has no relevance to whether the practice deserves our acceptance.

The real problem is that such a childish argument usually sidelines the real issues.

There are 4 types of laughter (I believe Eric Berne discussed this in Transactional Analysis).

Ha Ha - Ridicule

Ho Ho - Benevolence

Heh Heh - Deceipt

Aha - Joy of discovery.

We want to get people to discover truth so they have a "reason" to change.

76

Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.

"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.

they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.

scotoma

Mocking is not right or wrong in itself. It is a matter of personal style.

If your objective is to assist people in changing their belief then ridicule and mocking is NOT a good idea. It's a type of bullying and the result is the band wagon effect. People will enjoy the mocking, ridicule and kicking of the opponent and have a good laugh with you but the resulting mob walks off and nothing has changed. It's like beating a pinata for a few sweets. It is a technique to bring people to your side even though no logical reasons have been given for such a shift in viewpoint.

Actually resorting to humor and ridicule is a serious fallacy when it comes to argumentation. Humor and ridicule is often used in an effort to avoid serious discussion because a person doesn't want to invest the time it takes to respond appropriately to an opponents position.

There is room for humor in arguing but it should only be used to relieve tension so you can move on to the more important issues that require a serious response.