Posts by LittleToe

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

Seratonin:

I would be okay telling them my views, but I'd also tell them that they were mine, and that they didn't have to agree.

At what age would you take that approach? The very young would likely be confused by it. They like certainty. They like to believe that their parents are invincible, powerful and always corrent. Until they reach their teens, that is

Appeals to emotion shouldn't be part of a debate, but in this case it is a hard one to avoid.

I agree. This is a difficult subject to discuss rationally and in a detached manner, especially given that we've all been raised with such polarised views. Its a testiment to how reasonable so many can be that this topic hasn't decended into flame and vitriol. For all the fact that there are so many differing views on this site, its great to see that a good deal of the time we can discuss things and explore our opinions without too much rancor

Sweetstuff:

Glasgow neds

VERY scary!!! And many of them are parents

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

HtA:What a jaded and over-simplified view.

Was it the irreligious who took to inventing the wonders of the modern world? Despite all the arguments that religion has hindered human progress we seem to have done pretty well. Despite religion being around as long as humans we seem to have survived a few generations. It must make for pretty terrible parenting, huh?

Could we have done better without religion, socially, familially and technologically? To argue for that is unscientific if you genuinely believe in the rational model - the "proof" simply isn't there. Should we really irradicate it? The few attempts at such a society have been dismal failures with no evidence of increased prosperity, affluence or progression. To believe such a view amounts to... well... so much "belief".

Should we promote such a view to our children on the gamble that we're correct? It would certainly be an interesting experiment, maybe on the scale of those suggested by Dr Spock (of no StarTrek connection) of the 1970s.

Religion has plenty of holes, but the areligious seem unable to present a reasonable argument for why they are right, either. Not if they genuinely seek to use the tools that allegedly got them where they already are (i.e. the scientific method). Does it boil down to personal choice? If so, is that a reasonable basis upon which to judge another's parenting skills?

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

Its worse than you can imagine. They're dancing around bonfires and squealing at burning effigies of 17th century failed revolutionaries!!!

I'm afraid... very afraid!!!

Edited to add teh following link for international explanation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

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Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

Seratonin:

If children are taught critical thinking skills then I can't see how they would be fooled by religion, but if they are, I wouldn't force them to listen to anything from me they may find offensive. Just as I don't force people now.

At what age would you teach them said "critical thinking skills"? While you state that you wouldn't force them to listen, would you still attempt to make your views known? What makes your views and framework of thinking better than theirs? I return to the thought that if our raising was so totally flawed in every aspect to the point that our thinking was compromised, what makes us think that our reasoning is so great now?? Parents are parents. They do their best in the circumstances that they find themselves. Often its their first attempt, especially with modern-day smaller families. There are precious few that set out to harm their children. Poor parents, good parents? How do you distinguish? What's the criteria? I'm struggling to find a well reasoned evidence-based response. For all the enlightenment it seems more to amount to an emotion-based antithesis to religion because of a single poor experience. When the light came on how did everything remain so very black and white? Is that the values we want to raise our children with?

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

Sweetstuff:
Just like you, I have to confess that my mind is closed on the subject of certain groups. If I were to find my child engaging a cult I would make clear my opinion in no uncertain terms. Unfortunately there are many groups and aspects of life where there is good and bad mixed. I have to acknowledge that my parents raised me with some good values but being raised with the risk of being ostracised seems unconscionable to me now.

Again, though, I find myself having to draw a distinction between the various ages and stages of childhood. We have far more control over what a child is exposed to. When they reach adulthood we move over into more of an influencing role, if we're fortunate.

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

Seratonin:

One has consequences for not agreeing, the other does not.

Not many were raised the way that we were. The majority of the people in my community are religious but they are raised to appreciate education. Their parents hope they will follow their beliefs but they don't ostracise them if they don't. Its a little unfair to brand all of the mainstream religous with the behaviour of an extremist cult, especially if the only experience we have is that of a cult and a little armchair websurfing. Are they all bad parents?

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

I wonder if the areligious ever ridicule their children (with verbal and/or non-verbal communication) when they investigate religion and decide that they would like to follow a particular faith?

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

Shawn:They tried to prove that concept in Communist Russia and China. It failed miserably. People still believed in god[s].

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

HtE:

Isn't bringing up children with religion the same as bringing them up with ancient ignorance,
deluding their personally advance intellectually, and therefore damaging humanity as a result.

Lets take that objection to its natural conclusion:

You were raised with religion therefore your thinking must be intrinsically flawed. You were programmed with delusions, including the idea that all religion is false except one, only you came to find that the one religion you held to be true was actually wrong. You cannot trust your thinking because it has been compromised. On that basis none of us can impartially discuss the topic and arrive at an accurate conclusion.

Every hypothesis on this thread demonstrates a number of assumptions (some apriory). To believe otherwise, in the face of the evidence, is potentially demonstrating childlike trust of your current level of intelligence. Education opens the mind to how little we actually know. We've all got a lot of education to go yet, haven't we?

73

Is it POOR PARENTING to raise a child into a religious faith?

by nicolaou in

or, by the same token, to raise a child to be atheist?

surely we should teach our children how to think, not what to think.

equip them with the mental tools they need to be able to work things out for themselves.

LittleToe

My parents read me the story of "Jack and the Beanstalk" as a child. Damn them for teaching me that geese can lay golden eggs, it has scarred me for life!!!