Posts by Nickolas

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

No, I don't mean sky diving, sab. Perhaps a question would help clarify my meaning.

I have not been stung by death yet. I am awaiting the trial by fire.

Do you fear your parents' deaths?

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

There is a difference between knowing something and understanding it. Knowing something to be true but forcing yourself to think it is not true (or vice versa) is cognitive dissonance. I propose the root of cognitive dissonance is fear. Fear is what keeps Jehovah's Witnesses in line and, I propose, keeps people from believing what historical and scientific evidence presents to be accurate truth. If you haven't looked oblivion in the face, you haven't confronted it and you cannot say you have no fear of what you have not confronted. One must know fear in order to be brave. Bravery on the battlefield is manifest only when the enemy is enjoined. It is otherwise bravado.

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

Thank you unshackled, LWT and SBC for the affirmation. I am very sorry about your mom, SBC. I somehow missed the news. I no doubt felt much as you do when mine died, now going on 7 years, even though she was older than yours by 14 years. My dad died 3 years ago. I made my transition between the deaths of my parents. My mother was paralysed by ALS and suffering horribly. I prayed for her to die and that morning she did. Still hurt a lot. By the time my dad passed I'd adopted a different perspective on death and it was easier. His eyes were locked on mine when he went. Still hard as hell, but easier. It's ok. It's just the way it is.

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

Tammy, I might offer the same observation to you as I have to sab. I respect both of you and I am honoured that you have contributed to this thread. But what I might appreciate understanding is how one can simulaneously hold out a hope for eternal life and say he has truly confronted the notion of oblivion? In order to confront it, you have to believe it.

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

I agree with you, sab. You should not fear oblivion. But to have reason to avoid it is inconsistent with not being fearful of it. Why avoid it? You can't. It's inevitable. So you need not avoid it at all. Embrace it.

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

I'll have to add that one to my list of books to read, unshackled. (I'm just about done "The Selfish Gene" and have "The Greatest Show on Earth" in the queue.) There is a degree of uncertainty in what I believe about life and death, but it's pretty small. I'm a 6 on the Dawkins scale. But it really just doesn't matter. That which I do not know, cannot know, will never know, is almost infinitely greater than what I think I know to be true. If there is a spiritual world I don't perceive it. If someone else perceives it and says he knows what goes on in it I hope I will be courteous enough to allow him beliefs that are important to him. If he insists that I can't be "saved" unless I believe what he does, well then we have a problem.

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

I can agree with you completely, sab. It was my choice. But if you are encouraged by the unknown to percieve that there just might be something for you after you die, then you haven't confronted the reality yet. Perhaps you do not fear oblivion because you still believe it may not apply to you.

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

You got there much sooner than I did, talesin. You are obviously quite bright. (and, yes, I am associating atheism with intelligence. Fire away.)

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

You are of course right, scully. The first transition is not voluntary, but you still have to proceed from there. You were a born-in, no?

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

Nickolas

Perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this. If you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.

I don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?). I think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning. Some were born-ins, others drifted in then out, still others who like me never took the plunge but who came ever so close. At one point in our lives we believed in God and a purpose of life.

Perhaps the hardest thing to accept on becoming atheist is the clear realisation that everyone loses his or her place in the sun. Not temporarily. Forever. This an atheist comes to accept on the basis of the evidence of history, the evidence of science and the evidence of his eyes. Contrast this belief with that of a present day Jehovah's Witness. He or she has an expectation that

a) they have a chance at never having to die at all (which would be a really, really good thing), and

b) even if they do die they're going to be resurrected into a perfect, young body and live in peace and harmony on paradise earth forever and ever.

Once you realise that a) just isn't going to happen - no rapture, no post-Armageddon - you're left with a belief that is every bit as irrational. There's another flavour of b) that goes something like, yes, everyone dies in body, but their sprit lives on for all eternity.

Here's were the dichotomy happens. Once you start on the road to atheism and insist on learning about things that are substantiated by evidence and observation it becomes more and more difficult to believe a) or b), or whatever flavour of b). At the same time, you still want to believe at least some variant of b), because it is hard to contemplate that you and your loved ones, beginning at some point in the very near future, will never see one another again. The undeniable fact of the matter is your future awaits. It could be soon, it could be many years away, but next to eternity it is not even a blink of time. You will either die from trauma or disease of some kind or slowly by decrepitation. And then the lights just go out. For a theist, as I once was, it is a frightening thing even to contemplate, let alone make a concerted attempt to understand. But that understanding eventually does come when you finally put aside what you are afraid of.

And then you find peace and you find wonderment in learning about and understanding how the world really works. The truth is far, far more fascinating and enthralling than any of those ancient fables.