I think, in this case, the jury might not consider “beyond a reasonable doubt” as the standard. Rather, for them, it will be “beyond a reasonable doubt my city won’t burn down if I let this innocent guy go”.
MeanMrMustard
JoinedPosts by MeanMrMustard
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
Also, police often take what seem to be the unnecessarily cruel path because there are other factors non-police normally don’t consider - like the common occurs of people faking, popping up, and beating the shit out of cops.
All these threads about cops ‘not needing to escalate that quickly’ or ‘taking extreme force’ do not consider that the cops have to stay in front of the situation. They can’t risk a guy tricking them and getting them into a vulnerable situation.
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
Btw, I think Chauvin will be found guilty of ...something.
I agree. This may be political enough that he is found guilty of the felony murder charge. My guess is felony murder, then it get appealed. Two years from now, it will work its way up and get overturned... quietly.
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
The whole world has watched that video with disgust,
This is true. But like many of these situations, it is wise to wait a bit. It *looked* bad at the time. Now, as we get more context, a different picture emerges - a drastically different picture.
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
Not knowing anything about drugs in his system at the time of the arrest but if he was high on fentanyl he would have not been so alert and aggressive, fentanyl is stronger than heroin.
Well, he was on a mixture. The dealer was selling him meth with fentanyl. But, keep in mind, during the arrest, the cops have no idea what he has in his system. They knew he was on something, but what exactly, they would only find out later.
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
@snare: The prosecution’s own use-of-force expert, upon cross examination, admitted it was not excessive and authorized, given what was going on around them, and what had transpired before the video - you know, context. Let that sink in a bit. The *prosecution* put up the expert witness. That witness said that actually Chauvin could have tased Floyd up front - a more aggressive use.
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
“A healthy person subjected to what Mr Floyd was subjected to, would have died,” said prosecution witness Dr Martin Tobin, a lung and critical care specialist at a veterans hospital and medical school in Chicago.
So Crowder has done this twice. Go back a few pages and watch for yourself. If I were the defense, I would bring a demonstration right into the court. Let them see that a healthy man will walk away every time.
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
Firstly, did Floyd swallow the fentanyl tablets when he was arrested to avoid being charged for possession?(common occurrence) If so, there was not enough time for the tablets to cause an overdose.....it would take at least 20 or 30 mins to begin to take effect.
That is not accurate. It can start to take effect within minutes, and permeates skin or other body surfaces almost immediately. In other words, if you take the lethal dose (as pictured in one of the above posts), lay it on your skin, you're dead.
Secondly, an addict usually knows his limits. He would be unlikely to swallow an amount he knew would be lethal - arrested or not (it’s not worth dying over) - and having three times the “lethal” dose for a NON user is not necessarily going to have the same effect on an addict. Habituation raises the level at which a drug will cause harm to a person.
No, he wouldn't know his limit. But if you are following the trial, it turns out he didn't quite know what he was ingesting. His dealer was a witness for the *prosecution*, but ended up taking the 5th after Floyd's girlfriend took the stand and testified that they weren't buying fentanyl. They were getting other drugs like meth and heroin. But the dealer had been lacing the drugs with fentanyl. The dealer was called as a prosecution witness because he was at the scene. It became clear that he was the dealer, and he most likely pushed Floyd to take the drugs when the cops arrived. It was a drug deal that went bad. The dealer took the 5th, lawyered up, because it was clear that he was exposed for 3rd degree murder liability all of a sudden.
All these things will be assessed by an expert witness in court*. The initial coroner will not necessarily be such an expert.
Yeah, a whole bunch of crap is going down in the trial. It doesn't look good for the prosecution.
And thirdly, should breaking the law, being an addict or passing off fake notes (because you are an addict) be deserving of a death sentence?!
This is the same line of logic as the other deaths - "He was just resisting a little bit, why should that be a death sentence?!" .... "He was only charging the cops, he was unarmed, why should that be a death sentence?!".
He was fighting the cops. He was high. He had a record of fighting. It is common for people to play possum until the cops let up, and then spring up and attack. Cops don't like to take chances.
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
Ok if thats true than the police should notice he blacked out unconscious and taken some kind of recovery action.
Again, that’s not how it is playing out in court. The prosecution’s expert on use of force said he’s held guys longer, even when they are unresponsive. The reason? Because guys that are on drugs tend to pop back up and start fighting again.
A common strategy is to *say* you are in distress, but *lie*. The officers knew he was on something - but had no idea what was going on. We only know now after the blood work.
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240
Derek Chauvin - The Right to a Fair Trial
by Simon inanyone following the derek chauvin trial?.
if you are actually following it, not just listening to the media, you will likely realize that there is a huge gap between what is going on in court and what is being reported in the media.. if the trial was fair, i think he should be acquitted.
there is plenty of reasonable doubt about the cause of death (his dealer doesn't want to testify because he could be guilty of 3rd degree murder for selling him a fatal amount of fentanyl) and even doubt over whether the officer even had his knee on the guys neck or did anything counter to what they were meant to do as per policy.. but is it fair?
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MeanMrMustard
Lethal dose of fentanyl:
I can’t seem to include the photo from my phone. Here is the link: https://cco.ndu.edu/Media/Images/igphoto/2002090915/