MeanMrMustard

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Posts by MeanMrMustard

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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  MeanMrMustard

  It is indeed very hard to fault the Scandinavian countries, both in their economic development and with their social successes. (Although Norway has been helped immensely by its off-shore oil industry). The example of countries such as Sweden and Denmark tends strongly to suggest that a Mixed Economy works best.

  It is not what you think. Sweden was very open and laissez-faire for about 100 years before the government interventions. You get the best growth, the best standard of living increases with free markets. Take a look at the video below. The Swedish economist jokes in relation to Sweden: ‘How do you get a small fortune? Start out with a big one and make mistakes.’

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gvVPBBDpV8
  

  And this one:
  

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9WOMQMkMQc
  

  That contrasts with the disastrous attempts in the late 1980s / early 1990s to implement a Free Market Economy in this country. (An experiment that is still often referred to as "Rogernomics", after the then minister of finance, Roger Douglas). During the 1980s, economist Milton Friedman gave a series of rather forceful lectures on TV about the virtues of the "Free Market". After that, wondrous claims were made about what it was going to achieve - and for a few years, many people actually believed it, too!
  However, the reality was quite different; with just one example of many being the "Leaky Homes" debacle.

  Again, this is not what it appears to be. There was a huge government manual that described all the building standards for New Zealand. It was called NZ Standard 3604. It was not the case of deregulation. The author of the source below mentions the creator of the new regulations by name and tends to think he knew nothing about construction. I'm sure he had good intentions though. Everyone followed them because…well, that’s the government’s standard. More government failure being passed off as the market’s fault. Since the new regulations happened around the same time as the deregulation in other things, well, post-hoc ergo propter hoc. Take it from a NZ builder:

  http://pc.blogspot.com/2009/11/leaky-homes-part-1-myth-of-deregulated.html

  MMM
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  MeanMrMustard

  But it does not take away from the fact that at the start of this village's development all the labour was internal to the village. The use of non-village workers only came with success. But yes, you're basically correct in saying that the village became a corporation.
  And whether, a business enterprise is owned by one individual, or by a company or by the government is not particularly important. What's important is that has the following:
  1. Access to adequate capital.
  2. Skilled management.
  3. Skilled technicians.
  4. Good accounting practise.

  I disagree. The most important factor is not on your list: The members of the town/corporation can make decisions on what to produce because they have prices – prices that come from everywhere else around them. They have prices for their inputs and a good idea of what they can get for their outputs at home and abroad. They are swimming in a sea of market information. This town is just like a large company, giving housing away for their investors as a perk.

  It does work. There is no dispute there. But it works, not because it shares the profits. Rather, it works because this one corporation is functioning as a supplier of goods within a market, and from that market information the town, just like a board of directors, can make decisions on resource usage to gain profits, which is the signal that they are moving resources into higher level goods.

  The point: This little town doesn’t bolster the socialist’s argument. The socialist notes: “there is no private property”. Answer: sure there is. The corporation/town is basically like a private actor.

  It may be noted in this discussion that government ownership was common in the past.

  Why is that important to note?

  Right across Asia there is evidence that governments initiated production facilities. For the reason already stated, that there was insufficient private capital available for the project. Not surprising when you consider that most of the population (say 80% to 90%) was engaged in agriculture. Only the state had the resources to inject capital into some enterprise.

  Not having the needed capital to undertake a venture implies something about undertaking that venture. What is so important about venture XYZ that you have to steal capital from everyone (taxes), pool it, and start the venture? When the government bureaucrats make that decision, how do they really know that more agriculture wouldn’t be the best thing right now? Why not steal money from people and create carrot juicers instead?

  MMM
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  MeanMrMustard

  @waton:

  I agree. You are correct. I also think that socialism conflicts with human nature. I tend to focus on the calculation problem. Mises did as well because the socialists started claiming human nature could change. A new "socialist man" could be created.

  I don't understand why there is anything good to be learned from Marxism. The only lessons worth learning is that the entire idea is rotten and should be perpetually discarded.

  MMM
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  MeanMrMustard

  Good comments here:

  Which brings up an interesting aspect. The 2008 economic crisis (capitalist in nature) that nearly brought many economic communities to the point of collapse, is thought to have been the fault of uncontrolled American capitalism.

  What does the Federal Reserve price fixing interest rates for years, providing the liquid capital in the form of printed money, funneled into the housing market by government programs, and incentivizing banks to disregard sound loan underwriting practices by law, have anything to do with capitalism?

  MMM
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  MeanMrMustard

  Anyway, see what you think of a successful 'socialist' village?

  It is not what you think. This village is basically a corporation using labor from the surrounding towns, paying them a wage, and producing products (like steel) to sell and realizing the profits because they can calculate their inputs and outputs due to prices. The workers coming in from surrounding towns are glad to work for these capitalists because it improves their standard of living. Nothing wrong with that...
  

  Even the Soviet Union lasted a while because they looked to surrounding capitalist economies for prices (they would order the Sears catalog for hints). Please, watch the video on page 2 of this thread. Socialist economies can't calculate.
  

  MMM
  
  
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  MeanMrMustard

  ...He was brilliant economist, and his ideas(not really read up on the man al that much) offer some sage advice IMO.

  He was a brilliant economist?

  1. If economics is a 'science' in any way, then what we really need to do is to see how Marx would fit into the understanding of the way economic communities (economies) work. For me, it would be his insistence that all parties must have an adequate reward. If that does not happen, then the economic community has failed and there will be repercussions.
  2.If economics is a 'science' in any way, then we should view the discussion, not just as whether any particular view is right or wrong, but on the way that view advances our understanding of the whole picture. We shoulod think of the arguments in the light of the scientific method.

  Economics is not a hard science. You can't predict human behavior, and you can't re-run experiments. Economics is praxeology.
  

  There once was a great auto mechanic. His name was Joe. He wanted to revolutionize the car. He thought, actually he *knew*, he could make it better. Just a fraction of the amazing features would be that the car would drive itself, use only 1% of the fuel, and the interior would be lush and comfortable with robot massage hands and champagne.

  To achieve this goal, he was willing to take radical, revolutionary steps. The cornerstone of these steps was to make the car completely out of dog shit.

  Joe is to Cars as Marx is to Economics. That is what we can learn.

  MMM

  
  
  
  
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  MeanMrMustard

  People have self interests, and Marxism, as it has been attempted, has failed, because you would have to produce first super devoted persons to make the above work and palatable. . Communist countries were nightmares trying that.

  This is true.

  But it is actually even worse for the Marxist/Socialist. Even if you grant this condition and everyone is on board with the idea - completely and utterly on board, devoted completely to the group, working night and day for good of the collective, it doesn't matter. The economy can't calculate resource usage. Not even changing human nature will change the sheer mathematical wall confronting socialists.

  MMM
  
  
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

  1. 
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  MeanMrMustard

  Socialist economies **CAN'T** calculate. Prices, profits, and especially loses have specific functions. Without these the economy can't calculate resource usage.

  It *IS* as simple as "capitalism = good, socialism = bad".

  MMM
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  MeanMrMustard

  @brokeback:

  I think the same is true in Capitalism only difference might be instead of the collective we could insert Capital(ist) concerns dominate human rights.

  I don't think this is true at all. Unless, of course, you are operating under the incorrect definition of "human rights".

  MMM
  
  
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

  1. 
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  MeanMrMustard

  @brokeback:

  Jobs are the means, not the ends in themselves.

  The goal of an economy is not to employ everyone. We can create an economy like that easily - simply draft everyone into the army, or dig holes and fill them up again. Everyone would work while they starve to death.

  Automation is a good thing. We increase supply and lower the price of production so that everyone's standard of living can rise.

  https://youtu.be/9fHDWoQuUZo
  

  MMM