Posts by Vanderhoven7

17

Can someone remind me the reason's you could be disfellowshipped?

by SydBarrett in

jw
friends

the only reasons i can remember are smoking, sexual immorality and of course, apostasy.

there must be others but having been out since 1990, i'm drawing a blank.

i was thinking perhaps serious criminal offenses that result in prison, but then i remembered a brother in my congregation in the 1980's who went to prison.

Vanderhoven7

Don't forget the real big sins like celebrating holidays, your children's birthdays and worst of all celebrating Christmas.

19

Top Jehovahs witnesses Historians

by Paul Bonanno in

jw
friends

hi .

who do you think are the best historian/historians about the history of jehovahs witnesses?.

paul.

Vanderhoven7

I appreciate Raymond Franz and his two excellent books, "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom".

15

"JEHOVAH'S" witnesses: How could WE get the name so wrong????

by BoogerMan in

the "slave's" understanding of the scriptures must be correct, so here's a clarification: ©.

(matthew 10:18) ....before governors and kings for jehovah's sake, for a witness..... (mark 13:9) ...be put on the stand......for jehovah's sake, for a witness to them.

(luke 24:47, 48) .

Vanderhoven7

Those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9

57

Who will Survive Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

breaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.

according to sergio:.

are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.

Vanderhoven7

I thought the new light was that "We don't know if people can repent and turn to Jehovah and His organization after the start of the tribulation."

If the Slave now says yes, many can survive Armageddon into paradise, then they are irrelevant to salvation.

So, "We don't know" suits them fine, since they can still may keep their soteriological relevance. Better trust the Faithful Slave to be sure.

57

Who will Survive Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

breaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.

according to sergio:.

are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.

Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

"Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"

"Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12

"... to leave Jehovah's organization ... we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed p.26

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22

"They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1

"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organisation that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259

Out of billions of professing Christians, they claim to be the only true believers who Jehovah approves of.

Because their chances of Salvation are works-based, they have to avoid anything that might offend Jehovah.

They must obey a long list of man-made practices conquered up by the Governing Body, in order to have Jehovah's approval.

They will even let their own children bleed to death, rather than risk disobeying these men, who liken themselves to the voice of God.

Yet even if they do survive, they still have to achieve perfection over 1000 years, before they are considered worthy of everlasting life.

"We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." w11 7/15 p.24 Simplified English Edition

"Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" w09 2/15 p.27

"All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." w13 11/15 p.20

"By word or action, may we never challenge the channel of communication that Jehovah is using today." w09 15/11 p.14

“It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.” w57 6/15 pp. 370

“Would not a failure to respond to direction from God through his organization really indicate a rejection of divine rulership?" w76 2/15 p.124

“During the great tribulation, it will be just as imperative that we follow the leadings of the holy spirit and obey Jehovah's instructions through his organization." w91 9/15 p.17

“We should likewise listen to any instructions we receive from Jehovah’s Organization and obey promptly and wholeheartedly.” mwb11/20 p.2

“To hold to the headship of Christ, it is therefore necessary to obey the Organization that he is personally directing” w59 5/1 p.269

“Obedience Is Better Than a Sacrifice. Ask yourself, ‘Do I obey instructions from Jehovah’s Organization promptly and completely?” mwb3/22 p.3

“The other sheep should never forget that their salvation depends on their active support of Christ’s anointed “brothers” still on earth.” w12 3/15 p.20

"However, the Governing Body are appointed through the holy spirit under the direction of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ." Watchtower 1990 Mar 15 p.18

"These overseers faithfully seek to apply instructions received from Jehovah God and Jesus Christ by means of the faithful and discreet slave and its Governing Body." Watchtower 1990 Mar 15 p.20

"Christ thus leads the congregation by means of the spirit-anointed "faithful and discreet slave" and its Governing Body." Examining the Scriptures Daily 2007 p.34

“Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation" W81 15/11 p.212

57

Who will Survive Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

breaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.

according to sergio:.

are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.

Vanderhoven7

Xyzhu writes

One of the most alarming and spiritually manipulative doctrines taught by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society—better known as Jehovah’s Witnesses—is the claim that their organization is the sole channel of salvation, and that only loyal members of “Jehovah’s visible organization” will survive the Great Tribulation and Armageddon. This belief is not just unbiblical—it is sectarian, spiritually abusive, and echoes the very elitist attitudes condemned by Christ himself.

The Claim in Their Own Words

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that:

“Survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization.”
— The Watchtower, May 15, 2006, p. 22

This statement echoes other similar claims, such as:

“There will be survivors of Armageddon. All survivors will be Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
— Jehovah’s Witnesses—Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, 1993, p. 170

Let that sink in: Only Jehovah’s Witnesses will survive. According to their teaching, every man, woman, and child who is not part of the Watchtower organization will be annihilated by God. This includes devout Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and even those in remote lands who have never heard of the Watchtower. Such a doctrine has all the hallmarks of a spiritual dictatorship masquerading as divine truth.

1. Theological Arrogance and Scriptural Distortion

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus teach that belonging to a specific modern-day religious corporation is a condition for salvation. In fact, Jesus warns against sectarianism:

“Whoever is not against us is for us.”
— Mark 9:40

When the apostles tried to stop someone casting out demons in Jesus’ name because he "was not one of us," Jesus rebuked them. This alone undermines the Witnesses’ rigid claim that only those under the authority of their Governing Body will be spared at the end.

The New Testament consistently emphasizes faith in Christ, love, repentance, and obedience to God's commandments—not membership in a 19th-century organization—as the basis for salvation:

“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
— Romans 10:13
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.”
— Ephesians 2:8

If survival depends on allegiance to the Watchtower, why is this never mentioned in Scripture? Why did Jesus not prophesy the coming of a Brooklyn-based publishing house as the ark of salvation?

2. A Legacy of Failed Prophecies

Jehovah’s Witnesses’ claim to be God’s exclusive channel is particularly bold given their embarrassing history of false predictions. They have incorrectly predicted Armageddon for the years 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, and more. They have flip-flopped on core doctrines (e.g., whether Jesus is the “mediator” for all or just the 144,000) and have altered their teaching on the generation of Matthew 24:34 multiple times.

Can a group with such an unstable and unreliable prophetic record seriously be considered the only channel through which God is saving mankind? Would God entrust the world's only hope to an organization so repeatedly wrong?

Jesus warned us:

“Beware of false prophets… you will recognize them by their fruits.”
— Matthew 7:15–16

And what fruit has the Watchtower borne? Broken families, disfellowshipped children, crushed spirits, doctrinal confusion—and above all, a spirit of fear rather than love.

3. The Real Meaning of the Great Tribulation and Armageddon

The Jehovah’s Witnesses use the specter of Armageddon to maintain control over their members. It's a psychological weapon. But biblically, Armageddon is not about organizational survival, but about God defeating evil systems, not saving a registry of names in the Watchtower database.

“Then I saw heaven opened… and the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen… were following him.”
— Revelation 19:11–14

The passage portrays Christ's ultimate victory—not the victory of a human-led publishing society.

Scripture teaches that God's judgment will be based on the hearts of men, not on their attendance at Kingdom Halls:

“God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to Him.”
— Acts 10:34–35

This universal call to salvation completely contradicts the Watchtower’s insular and legalistic salvation-by-organization scheme.

4. The Cultic Implications of the Watchtower’s Doctrine

This exclusivity doctrine is textbook cult behavior. According to the BITE model of cult mind control (developed by Dr. Steven Hassan), one hallmark of destructive religious control is “us-versus-them” ideology. Members are taught that only they are God’s people, and that everyone else—no matter how virtuous—deserves destruction.

This belief:

Creates dependence on the organization,
Discourages critical thinking,
And justifies shunning and emotional abuse of ex-members.

It’s not biblical truth—it’s spiritual authoritarianism.

5. What About the Church Jesus Actually Founded?

Jehovah’s Witnesses arrogantly dismiss as Apostate, all of historic Christianity which Christ himself established (see Matthew 16:18). Yet the very Church they condemn has preserved the Bible they use, formulated the canon of Scripture, and defended the core truths of the Christian faith for 2,000 years.

No, the path of salvation was not rediscovered by Charles Taze Russell in the 1870s. The deposit of faith has always been present in the church.

“I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
— Matthew 28:20

Christianity proclaims what Jesus proclaimed: that salvation is found in Him, not in any man-made institution claiming exclusive access to God.

Conclusion: Salvation Is Through Christ, Not the Watchtower

Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to believe that only their organization will survive Armageddon. But this belief has no basis in Scripture, no support in Church history, and stands in direct contradiction to the universal, gracious call of the Gospel.

God's mercy is not boxed into a Brooklyn headquarters. Christ did not die so that a publishing company could become a spiritual monopoly.

Armageddon will not be a census of Watchtower loyalty—it will be the final triumph of God over evil, and those who seek Him with sincere hearts will not be turned away because they weren’t on a Governing Body-approved list.

“Everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.”
— John 3:16

And that, dear reader, is Good News—not fear-based propaganda.

Need help leaving the Watchtower? Resources and support are available. Truth is not found in fear, but in the freedom of Jesus Christ.

15

What "message" does the J.W Org. have to offer that will attract new members ?

by Phizzy in

the message they have been pushing for 150 years or so is "the end is near !"..

in the educated, civilised world, people think " yea ?

maybe because of economic meltdown exacerbated by climate change, but not from some intervention by a non-existent god".. "would you like a free bible study ?

Vanderhoven7

Their life saving message

Jehovah's Witnesses are the only Christians on earth as defined by Jehovah’s Witnesses. As the Bible teaches, if you don't trust in 11 men in New York you don't trust Jehovah and therefore cannot be approved by God. Only these men understand the Bible. The Bible itself is not capable of leading you or making you wise to salvation independent of the Faithful Slave organization. Read your Bible for goodness sake.

All other so called Christians of Christendom are dupes of Satan and will be destroyed either at Armageddon or during the Great Tribulation. But if they kill themselves before the GT starts, they will get an automatic resurrection pass to paradise where they will learn Jehovah’s Witnesses were right all along.

64

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

Vanderhoven7

I agree that the thief did not grasp the ontology of Jesus, but to his credit, he addressed Jesus as Lord, and as you mention, undeserving of death, and saw himself as worthy of death. Add to that his faith was in Jesus kingship and future kingdom which suggests he viewed Jesus messiahship and what goes with that. Was that enough to save him? I think so.

For years I viewed Jesus as the divine Son of God worthy of worship...but not God. A fellow university student and Messianic Jew, came to our Bible Study to prove we could not be saved unless we believed in the Trinity. He took us through scripture and the Creeds eloquently and thoroughly. Afterward, as we were driving him home, my brother asked him when he came to believe in the Trinity. His exact words were, "Oh about a year after I was saved."

You can imagine the immediate mayhem and laughter that broke out in the car thereafter.

64

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

Vanderhoven7

I believe Jesus is fully God. Yet I am glad that the Scriptures do not say thar one must believe the Trinity to be saved.

The running joke was that to become a priest in the Catholic Church candidates had to speak on the Trinity for 5 full minutes without committing more that 17 heresies.

6

Pinata's vs Birthday's - classic JW hypocrisy

by joey jojo in

i vaguely knew that the pinata had some kind of pagan origin and i assumed that having a pinata at a jw party was frowned on by the b0rg.

however, despite its blatant pagan origins, apparently i was wrong.. the 22 september, 2003 awake states that the aztecs would smash a clay pot full of 'treasures' in honour of the god huitzilopochtli's birthday.

spanish missionaries simply switched the pot for the pinata during the christian conversion of the aztecs.

Vanderhoven7

I just answered a question regarding birthday and Christmas celebrations

No trees, no birthdays. These are disfellowshipping offenses in the JW scheme of things. Why you could lose your eternal life if your children blow out candles on their birthdays. You don't want to be destroyed at Armageddon do you?

AWA writes

Did other Witnesses find out about this celebration?
Was the Witness simply in the presence of others (e.g. family) on Christmas Day as those others celebrated while to the Witness it was simply a family meal?
Was the Witness actually a participant in the Christmas celebration? Does the Witness feel what they did (participating in the celebration) was wrong, or would they do it again if they had a chance?

I will add.

Did you eat a piece of the birthday cake?

Did you help blow out the candles?

Did you enjoy yourself as you watched your child open his presents?

These are all major offenses in the Watchtower world.