Posts by tec

50

I LIKE Y'ALL, TOO!!!

by snowbird in

jw
friends

this is just a note to all who have assured me of their fondness for me, on board and in pm.. i really appreciate it, and i feel the same about y'all.. this is a great site, and i do get a bit carried away at times.. blame it on too much loneliness and not enough to do on the job, but not on deliberate crassness.. ok?.

thanks!.

sylvia.

tec

You've encouraged me a few times also, and it is always deeply appreciated.

Tammy

44

I tried to talk to JW's today and they ran away.

by moshe in

jw
friends

i spotted them out in fs on my block as i turned into my driveway, so i waited for them to come around to my side of the street.

they were in a huddle, 2 sisters and 2 brothers- the brothers had a young boy around 6 with them to get sympathy.

i had my 1924 wt book, the way to paradise, in hand and approached them.

tec

I should elaborate on what I mean by being disrespectful. Stating facts, even in a harsh or strict manner, is not disrespectful. Name calling is abusive and disrespectful. Laughing at someone because they perhaps get a scripture wrong, or quote the wrong scripture is petty. Threatening gestures or words are abusive and perhaps also illegal.

All of these detracts from the truth of one's message, and leaves the other party looking victimized... even if the reverse is true.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought you had done any of this, Moshe. From your account, you seemed to be quite respectful and informed. In fact, by calling you a liar, it seems that this man was quite disrespectful to you.

Tammy

44

I tried to talk to JW's today and they ran away.

by moshe in

jw
friends

i spotted them out in fs on my block as i turned into my driveway, so i waited for them to come around to my side of the street.

they were in a huddle, 2 sisters and 2 brothers- the brothers had a young boy around 6 with them to get sympathy.

i had my 1924 wt book, the way to paradise, in hand and approached them.

tec

Moshe - I think the idea of you following the JW's to the door and correcting them is ingenious... as long as it is kept in respectful, non-abusive tones. (Anger and sarcasm would discredit you, if it was me standing in the doorway listening to the debacle.)

I don't know how much this approach could help the older JW's, but some of the younger ones perhaps... and it will at least keep the householder from succumbing without knowing both sides of the coin. This is a much better approach than picketing a kingdom hall.

For those trying to maintain relations with loved ones inside the organization, then this might be more difficult, if not impossible. But kudos to you.

Tammy

104

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

by cameo-d in

i felt this subject deserved it's own thread.. .

quote:.

this jesus character is recorded in two books of the bible as vandalising a fig tree for reasons that make absolutely no sense to me at all.. i have mentioned this stupidity a couple of times on this forum and the only attempt anyone had at explaining his actions completely ignored grammar and context.. .

tec

Good morning, Blacksheep

I have done what you asked, although I stand by the fact that you cannot get a true understanding of the man or of his full message without putting both into context.

But after reading both accounts, setting aside everything else that I know about Jesus, and concentrating solely on these two passages... what I see is only a lesson on the power of faith and prayer. A lesson made even more profound because of its physical nature.

Matthew 21:21 - 'Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to this fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea, and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.'

However, I would not presume to make an assumption about Jesus' character from these passages. (I would not presume to make an assumption about anyone based on one story about them... this is unfair and biased judgment) I would look at other things about Jesus, in order to get a complete picture of who he was and what he taught, and it would quickly become clear to me that he was not the "psychotic tyrant with an inferiority complex" that you named him.

As a direct result of learning more about Jesus and his teachings, I would have learned about the Pharisees and teachers of the law whom he condemned for not producing fruit for the Kingdom of God... and my conclusions would have been the same as I have already stated.

Best,

Tammy

104

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

by cameo-d in

i felt this subject deserved it's own thread.. .

quote:.

this jesus character is recorded in two books of the bible as vandalising a fig tree for reasons that make absolutely no sense to me at all.. i have mentioned this stupidity a couple of times on this forum and the only attempt anyone had at explaining his actions completely ignored grammar and context.. .

tec

But you have to take these scriptures in context with the others. You can't come to an educated and rational understanding otherwise.

Tammy

104

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

by cameo-d in

i felt this subject deserved it's own thread.. .

quote:.

this jesus character is recorded in two books of the bible as vandalising a fig tree for reasons that make absolutely no sense to me at all.. i have mentioned this stupidity a couple of times on this forum and the only attempt anyone had at explaining his actions completely ignored grammar and context.. .

tec

Didn't see your other post. Sorry.

104

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

by cameo-d in

i felt this subject deserved it's own thread.. .

quote:.

this jesus character is recorded in two books of the bible as vandalising a fig tree for reasons that make absolutely no sense to me at all.. i have mentioned this stupidity a couple of times on this forum and the only attempt anyone had at explaining his actions completely ignored grammar and context.. .

tec

Blacksheep -

I respectfully disagree with your assessment. The Jesus you describe makes no sense in accordance with everything else that he taught and did. Most of the above makes no sense to me either. A fig tree does not have the ability to decide not to bear fruit, so implying that Jesus should have forgiven it for not bearing fruit sounds silly to me.

I'm sorry. But if the entire idea that a fig tree could have been deserving of forgiveness or not makes no sense, then the only thing that does make sense is that this particular explanation/interpretation of this story is incorrect.

It does make sense that this was a parallel to the teachers of the law and Pharisees who were not producing fruit for the Kingdom of God. Because this was Jesus' message through many of his teachings. Perhaps this message was so important that Jesus applied it in a physical example, and as such, he would have no need to admit a wrongdoing... since it served a real, and in this case, powerful purpose.

The supposed 'message' from his actions simply do not have anything to do with his actions.

Again, I disagree with this assessment. Deriving a message from his actions makes sense based on all available information. I think your assessment is completely taken out of context, and I think it does dismiss everything else that we know about Jesus. I'm sorry, but I can read this passage over and over, keeping in mind what Jesus taught and did... and I just don't see any basis for your conclusion.

Best,

Tammy

104

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

by cameo-d in

i felt this subject deserved it's own thread.. .

quote:.

this jesus character is recorded in two books of the bible as vandalising a fig tree for reasons that make absolutely no sense to me at all.. i have mentioned this stupidity a couple of times on this forum and the only attempt anyone had at explaining his actions completely ignored grammar and context.. .

tec

Blacksheep - You are the second person to accuse me of using tactics to change the subject when my beliefs are questioned. Honestly, I am not trying to do this.

But I don't see how I was questioning your character. I was questioning your assumption, based on what you had written on another thread to me:

What about the Jesus that vandalised the fig tree? No forgiveness, no humility, no charity, no mercy, and not much intelligence on display either. Just arrogance, showing off how tough he was to his mates. He was letting his true colours show, the psychotic tyrant with an inferiority complex. - Blacksheep

I apologize if I was not clear, but I do stand on the validity of my question, concerning this assumption.

What is it about this scripture that leads you to believe that the statement "... because it was not the season for figs." really means that it was the season for figs and that Jesus could reasonably expect to find some edible ones on a tree, in that area, at that time of year, 2000 years ago?

I don't ever recall saying that it was the season for figs when the scripture says that it was not. In fact, if the scripture states that it was not the season for figs, it seems more plausible to me that this whole ordeal was indeed a physical parable for the purposes I gave above... since there is no reason for Jesus to be expecting a fig on a tree that is out of season.

Best

Tammy

64

Did leaving the WT build greater appreciation for or kill your reading of the Bible?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

i am really on the fence on this issue right now and would love some opinions.. i find that i dont sit down and read the bible for long periods since becoming inactive, but on the other hand, individual scriptures mean much more to me now.. i will sit down and look up some favorite passages from time to time and feel like its the first time i really "got it" - without the jw goggles on.

i love matthew chapter 23, since i think it describes to a tee the situation in jw congregations.

i think if jesus returned today, he would blast the elders and "leaders" of the borg in a similar fashion (along with most religious leaders) .matthew 24 is actually more interesting to me now, simply because my whole life was waiting for the 1914 generation to end sometime during the reagan era!

tec

I moved my answer to the other thread, Blacksheep. But I think its going to get lost in all the other stuff!

Tammy

104

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

by cameo-d in

i felt this subject deserved it's own thread.. .

quote:.

this jesus character is recorded in two books of the bible as vandalising a fig tree for reasons that make absolutely no sense to me at all.. i have mentioned this stupidity a couple of times on this forum and the only attempt anyone had at explaining his actions completely ignored grammar and context.. .

tec

I brought this over from another thread, in respect to Blacksheep not wishing to hijack that thread.

(...Blacksheep - You mentioned something about Jesus acting like a bad*ss and showing off his power to his mates, regarding the fig tree on another thread I started, and I apologize for not responding then.

Jesus condemned the pharisees and teachers of the law for their hypocrisy and hard hearts. They cared nothing for the people given into their care - those people who were poor in spirit and in material means as well. They certainly did not *feed* the spiritual hunger of the people, and they produced no *fruit* for the kingdom of heaven. (fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Galatians 5:22-23)

So... Jesus gets up, goes to a fig tree that is not producing fruit when he is hungry, and finds nothing to nourish him. Just as the people go to the teachers and pharisees when they are spiritually hungry, and find nothing to feed or comfort them. The fruitless tree (spiritual leaders of the jews) is cursed. It will never bear fruit again, because it does not feed those who are hungry now. They (pharisees and teachers of the law) have lost the right to the Kingdom of God.

I think the story actually happened (some believe it figurative, but it is the message that is important). But I think the event itself was a physical parable for Jesus' disciples. It showed Jesus' authority over the Kingdom of God. It also showed that those who do not spiritually comfort and feed the people given unto their care will be cut off from that Kingdom.

Please also note that the tree (growing on the side of the road) belonged to no one except God, and therefore, Jesus.

I wonder why would you dismiss every good thing Jesus did, in favor of what you think this one story says about Jesus character? Jesus fed five thousand, healed lepers and sickness, preached mercy and forgiveness, and stood up to the hypocrisy of the pharisees and teachers of the law. This is the true character of the man. Your assumption about the fig tree is being rendered completely out of context, in accordance to everything else that has been written about Jesus...)

Tammy