I keep waiting to hear a good reason for the high official (overseer, or director?) of the Australian branch that was moved to Poland after the first criminal court date had taken place.
This took place recently? Who and when?
MrMonroe
JoinedPosts by MrMonroe
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156
Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank
by AndersonsInfo invictoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.
(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.
i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.
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My Last Day In Field Service
by finallysomepride inwas in november 1981, 30th anniversay coming up wohoo.
date: not sure but it was a saturday.
time: 4pm aprox last house.
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MrMonroe
Funny how those loving shepherds sometimes just seem to overlook those lost sheep!
It took from April 2008 (when I went to my last meeting) to late October the same year for an elder to catch up with ... not me, but my wife at her work ... to say, "So what happened?" The reason for his visit: I told a friend of mine in Brisbane I hadn't been to a meeting for six months. His reaction: "And what have the elders said to you?" He was aghast that none had contacted us. No elders, none of our so-called friends. So he phoned the secretary at my congo down here in Melbourne and asked him why no one had come.
Doesn't not doing field service take a huge weight off your shoulders?
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James Beverley's book on Penton's expulsion now on Abebooks
by MrMonroe in"crisis of allegiance" is a slim, but excellent book written by a professor of religion on the events in lethbridge, alberta, around 1981, that led to the expulsion of jim penton, a jw who believed he was anointed but also happened to think the wts had some doctrines wrong.. it's a great read that ties in quite closely with the campaign to get rid of ray franz, showing the dirty tricks used by the society to rid themselves of someone who dared to question them.
penton was an academic who the society loved when he wrote a book on their human rights legal challenges ... but when he expanded his research and decided to do a book on their history, pow!
they began regarding him with great suspicion.
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MrMonroe
It pops up from time to time. I obtained it by creating a "wants" list at Abebooks; Alibris has a similar feature, I think. It's well worth adding to your library.
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Discussion With Friends After The CA... Generation Demo & Blood
by BroMac inwell the 'standout' for me was the generation demo.
you cant have a red blood cell treatment, but you could have a haemoglobin treatment, haemoglobin is a conscience matter.
red blood cells treatment.
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MrMonroe
The GB really needs to publish a special edition of the WT to bring the idiots up to speed.
"Hey, dummies, THIS is what you now believe!"
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James Beverley's book on Penton's expulsion now on Abebooks
by MrMonroe in"crisis of allegiance" is a slim, but excellent book written by a professor of religion on the events in lethbridge, alberta, around 1981, that led to the expulsion of jim penton, a jw who believed he was anointed but also happened to think the wts had some doctrines wrong.. it's a great read that ties in quite closely with the campaign to get rid of ray franz, showing the dirty tricks used by the society to rid themselves of someone who dared to question them.
penton was an academic who the society loved when he wrote a book on their human rights legal challenges ... but when he expanded his research and decided to do a book on their history, pow!
they began regarding him with great suspicion.
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MrMonroe
"Crisis of Allegiance" is a slim, but excellent book written by a professor of religion on the events in Lethbridge, Alberta, around 1981, that led to the expulsion of Jim Penton, a JW who believed he was anointed but also happened to think the WTS had some doctrines wrong.
It's a great read that ties in quite closely with the campaign to get rid of Ray Franz, showing the dirty tricks used by the society to rid themselves of someone who dared to question them. Penton was an academic who the Society loved when he wrote a book on their human rights legal challenges ... but when he expanded his research and decided to do a book on their history, POW! They began regarding him with great suspicion. "Apocalypse Delayed" was the final product .... started while he was "in" and finished when he was "out".
"Crisis of Allegiance" is often quite hard to find. But I received an email alert today that it is now online through Abebooks. Highly recommended.
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WT Flip-Flops on Jesus Inspection Was it in 1918 or 1919?... Did the WT PASS or FAIL?
by Alfred inthis is utterly ridiculous.... .
the more i research this particular subject, the more flip-flops i uncover.
it seems the fds cant even make up their minds regarding what happened in 1918 (or should i say 1919?).
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MrMonroe
Much of Don Cameron's Captive of a Concept book deals with the problem of Jesus supposedly selecting the Bible Students when they were teaching as "truth" doctrines that were firmly rejected within a decade or two. They would say that Jesus saw past their failings and realised he could lead them to the truth. But why would he?
Cameron argues it thus: (p.23)
1. If Jesus did return in 1914, neither Russell nor Rutherford ever knew it. What are the chances that God would select such prominent men for his sole "channel of commuinication" but then never communicate to them that his Son had returned?
2. The title of the Watchtower magazine (the magazine that had already passed the test, remember!) included the words "and Herald of Christ's Presence." Yet according to what they teach today, Christ wasn't present when the magazine said he was! Why why would God choose a magazine as his channel that lied even in its title?
3. Since they believed Jesus had returned in 1874, it means they weren't watching for his return in 1914. Yet in Luke 12:37 Jesus said they would be "happy" only if "on arriving he found them watching for his return." But they weren't watching for his return in 1914 because they thought he'd returned 40 years earlier! In fact they were the only Christian denomination not waiting for his return.
4. Luke 12:36 says "At (Jesus') arriving and knocking they mat at once open to him. But if he arrived and started knocking in 1914, how long did he have to knock before they realised he'd turned up in 1914?
I wonder if they'd answer a Question From Readers on this one?
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Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank
by AndersonsInfo invictoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.
(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.
i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.
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MrMonroe
My question related specifically as to whether a conviction in the Magistrates Court would be newsworthy . . . as I suspect a discharge without conviction would barely cause a flutter.
As far as Steven has explained it, the case can't be decided in the Magistrates Court, but must go to the Supreme Court, but I'm really not sure of the process now to get it there! It may be as simple as the magistrate at the next hearing bumping it up there. But I would expect that a conviction would earn a few paragraphs in the Herald Sun or The Age. Then again, if it was all handled smoothly in court, it could go unreported. A lot of court cases take place every day and few of them are reported.
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WT Flip-Flops on Jesus Inspection Was it in 1918 or 1919?... Did the WT PASS or FAIL?
by Alfred inthis is utterly ridiculous.... .
the more i research this particular subject, the more flip-flops i uncover.
it seems the fds cant even make up their minds regarding what happened in 1918 (or should i say 1919?).
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MrMonroe
I encountered the same problem when I was writing material for the Wikipedia article on the FDS. There was an additional problem too, in that Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, (1959, page 22) claimed the Bible Students were "tested" and "found fit" in 1879 to run a campaign leading up to expected events in 1914! Who tested Russell then? How do we know? If he and his magazine passed the test in 1879, why did Jesus inspect all religions in 1918?
Here's the quote from that book:
"... in many ways the evidence was beginning to accumulate that, of all the early voices heard, Jehovah had chosen the publication we now call The Watchtower to be used as a channel through which to bring to the world of mankind a revelation of the divine will and, through the words revealed in its columns, to begin a division of the world's population into those who would do the divine will and those who would not. For this reason 1879 was a turning point in the work. This little group, headed by C.T. Russell, had now been tested and had been found fit to undertake the great preliminary campaign leading up to the climax expected in 1914."
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156
Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank
by AndersonsInfo invictoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.
(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.
i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.
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MrMonroe
BOTR, the case is unllikely to have come to the attention of any legal journals. It is still in its formative stage. It is certainly unusual in that an individual with no legal background has been permitted to launch a private prosecution. If the news coming via Barbara is reliable, the Department of Public Prosecutions is giving indications that it may take over. Hopefully it will develop.
Sizemik, The simple fact is that so far there is nothing for the mainstream media to report about this case. Once something happens (ie, a trial begins in the Supreme Court) then there is the possibility of coverage. Though the machinations of the WTS may be of interest to us, they don't excite the interest of newspaper editors.
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156
Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank
by AndersonsInfo invictoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.
(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.
i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.
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MrMonroe
If he gets the WTS of Australia to plead guilty, they'll be fined or discharged and that would satisfy the DPP. Wasn't the reason Steven named so many defendants so that they couldn't just slip out of the net? He has covered pretty well all the bases; he needs the organisation to be found guilty and change its ways; he doesn't need every defendant to be found guilty.
Defendants are often charged with numerous offences and in the end all but one charge is dropped as long as the state gets a conviction with a guilty plea on that one. What's to stop the DPP just saying, "Yeah, we'll drop all charges against all but one organisation as long as you plead guilty and save us all the grief."