Posts by simon17

38

The biggest enemy the Watchtower Corporation faces now is "The Truth"

by Finkelstein in

thats my opinion because the wts really has been preaching false information now for so long about the end times and armageddon soon.. also the doctrine that jesus chirt has taken a position over his earthly and heavenly kingdom in 1914 .... etc.

its been a winfall marketing scheme for such a long time, which now really doesn't have much leg to stand on.. time in conjunction with reality has made the wts's doctrines redundantly weak or useless more or less.. i'm even believing the leaders of the wts are even starting to know this for themselves.. the wts future and its main supporting pieces of literature, the watchtower and awake magazines may eventually be tossed aside.

for some new doctrines as well newly named pieces of literature .

simon17

My wife, son and his wife have just returned from the DC and they looked depressed and worn down - I am so glad I missed this "refreshing" spiritual banquet for a second year! I can't wait to hear some of the highlights in the coming days...I guess the "truth" is also getting long in the teeth for them too...but it is still not enough to wake them up.

Yea but isn't that the point of keeping them so busy with conventions and service and study and meetings and assemblies and hall cleaning and prayer and feeling guilty...

You can't "wake up" when you're so DAMN TIRED!

24

The WTS "Brain Drain"

by Quendi in

i posted this on another thread and am pasting it here to start a new one because i would be interested in getting others' thoughts on it.. there has been a downward spiral in the quality of the written publications since the death of fred franz in december 1992. whatever else can be said about franz, the man did have some education and his writing was of good quality.

others in the writing department also had some skill and command of language that gave cogency to their work.

but since franz's death, a huge leadership vacuum has opened in the wts.

simon17

IMO the writing has always been awful.

There's really three things here...

1) The writing style

2) The content

3) The research

#1 has clearly declined dramatically, as has the rest of the country. The literature now is probably 4th grade level reading. At least in the past it was high school quality maybe.

#2 has clearly declined. It used to be many more deep topics and scriptural examinations and, even if it was BS, it had the appearance of being deep study of the scriptures. Now its 95% cookie cutter nonsense and the same few scriptures regurgitated ad nauseum. There is just very little substance anymore.

#3 is what hasn't changed much. Its still a lot of nonsense, and, as some have pointed out, may be even a little less nonsensical because they're focusing on such basic, baby stuff most of the time.

24

The WTS "Brain Drain"

by Quendi in

i posted this on another thread and am pasting it here to start a new one because i would be interested in getting others' thoughts on it.. there has been a downward spiral in the quality of the written publications since the death of fred franz in december 1992. whatever else can be said about franz, the man did have some education and his writing was of good quality.

others in the writing department also had some skill and command of language that gave cogency to their work.

but since franz's death, a huge leadership vacuum has opened in the wts.

simon17

Don't blame the WTS on this one. The whole country is suffereing from brain drain. This has been accelerated since No Child Left Behind, in my opinion, but the vast majority of kids coming out of high school are woefully pathetic in basic skills and even more atrocious in critical thinking and analysis skills. There are still some bright spots in specialized high schools or in good high school's AP programs, but beyond those, our education system is well tailored to making every child uniformly uneducated.

162

No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

by respectful_observer in

apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

simon17

Just to recap here: how much actual evidence is there that this is true?

Scanning through all 8-pages quickly it seems its just one person saying they heard this (and one source was a speculative JWN thread) and then a whole bunch of people saying "that makes sense".

Has anyone else actually heard this from a different source?

173

Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs

by breakfast of champions in

jw
friends

article found here.. .

those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.

this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.

simon17

Scientistis and critical thinkers tend to athiesm, but that doesn't mean people who were raised in an athiestic household are automatically in this category. Especially living in this, one of the most overtly religious countries in the industrialized world, many who grew up without faith and are uncomfortable with a definite end to their life and to the lives of their loved ones will seek out 'answers' which are only found in religion. I would suspect the retention rates are much higher in more secularized countries like in Europe.

49

Are we completely sure Trans people don't just have a mental disorder?

by Lore in

jw
friends

so i thought i was a pretty accepting person.

sure i grew up in a bigoted cult who hates gay people.. now i'm an atheist who has no reason to care about anyones sexual prefferences.. .

but i've watched inverviews of trans people.

simon17

Yes, it is a mental disorder... but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should prevent people from getting gender reassignment. For that matter, I don't see a strong argument against amputating someone's hands, except to the extent that it prevents them from living as a normal human being...

...actually, that's probably the important part. Transgender people can function normally in society, and aside from their gender identity, are perfectly normal individuals. Therefore there is no reason to deny them their desires, desires which only help them to function better.

Agree with this. What is a mental disorder? Isn't it that which prevents people from a) living like they reasonably should expect to live (most physical & mental disorders) or b) functioning in society (most personality disorders). If someone wants to be tran and is happy with it, I don't see how it effects the rest of society. It certainly is not 'natural' in the evolutionary sense of the word, but I would just chalk it up to a more extreme example of the many differences among us in this complicated and confusing world.

81

How Did You Become An Atheist?

by NewChapter in

jw
friends

since there seem to be a number of threads in this spirit, i'd like to ask how others became atheists.

for myself, i learned some things that made me understand the bible wasn't true.

i looked deeper, and it became even more unlikely.

simon17

My path was fairly straight-forward:

* Questioned specific doctrines which contradicted science (flood, evolution, 607)

* Research led to lack of faith in organization

* Researched Bible with an open mind

* Lack of faith in Bible

* Examined other religions and talked to its adherents (found them to be, in principle, the same at their core)

This was actually my first very real struggle. I would say to people I no longer understood prayer. If I received what I prayed for, then God had answered. If something bad happened, then God was not to blame. God does not protect us. But then why pray. I was told that because I had a good job and had bought disability insurance, God had blessed me. Really, I asked. But nearly everyone that works with me bought that insurance, they also have very good jobs, they worked hard for them. And they made a wise decision---yet many of them are not believers. However, if they get sick, they will have the same protection that I have. So was it God, or was it just me working hard and making good decisions? What would you say if I didn't have a good job or had not bought the insurance?

I agree that somewhere in there an examination of prayer was major. I was very much believing in prayer. That doing it effected my daily life and god blessed things depending on my ferver of prayer or not. I went through the same thought process about prayer and decided to test my life without it. It wasn't complete as, when someone bad would happen I'd supersticiously return, guilty and half-heartedly rededicated to prayer. But eventually I cut it out completely and nothing at all in life changed. Good stuff still happened. So did some bad, as did the way through. I still gave great talks and was commended and looked up to and told I had 'god's spirit.' The more I thought about it, the more it made sense that prayer was absurd.

27

Survey: How Sure are you of Your Beliefs?

by simon17 in

jw
friends

i find it interesting to see, not just the state of people's beliefs, but how sure they are of them.

or asked another way, what is the percent chance people feel they are wrong about their current beliefs.

so state your current core beliefs about jws, christianity, god, and a percentage 0-100% of how sure you are that this belief is correct.

simon17

I find it interesting to see, not just the state of people's beliefs, but how sure they are of them. Or asked another way, what is the percent chance people feel they are wrong about their current beliefs. So state your current core beliefs about JWs, Christianity, God, and a percentage 0-100% of how sure you are that this belief is correct. 100% is absolute sureness, in that no piece of additional information or reflection could ever change your mind.

Mine (feel free to copy my categories or make your own):

* JW's not 'God's' true organization: 99.9%+ sure

* Bible not inspired: 99.9%+ sure

* A personal god does not exist: 99.9%+ sure

* No god-like creator exists: 70% sure

162

No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

by respectful_observer in

apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

simon17

The cutbacks are so rapid and severe now you have to wonder whether there is not serious rumbling going on among the ranks about whether the organisation is in crisis mode.

Certainly, there are no rumbings. The WBTS has, in general, carte blanche with its members to do what they want without question.

162

No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

by respectful_observer in

apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

simon17

That lawsuit is ridiculous and should be thrown out of court. I think everyone put forth their best effort. Conventions always seem to have a large amount of seating for the infirm or handicapped and the Victors were just helping out an old person the best they could. Old people sometimes fall and, unfortunately die. It happens in showers, homes, shopping malls, kingdom halls, parking lots, conventions.