Regarding Julian Assange, I don't want to push any tin-foil hat stuff but he was in deep problems at the time where wikipedia was blocked for donations by mastercard, etc., He then got a Visa to russia and a TV-show on a Kremlin backed TV chanal. Reports have since surfaced that he is filtering out information critical of Russia.
Posts by bohm
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67John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
Yes, they were copies of the Clinton server emails the FBI already had... and the fact they were even there is DAMNING.
Honestly, can you explain why? You are saying that the FBI found emails on weiners computer that compromised an agent?
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
How did 650,000 Clinton emails get onto a laptop used by Anthony Weiner?
Oh, he's the husband of Clintons most trusted aide, Huma Abadin.
Doesn't it seem most likely that SHE put them there? or they were there because she was accessing them?
Now ask why would she do that? (and also why and how many other people had access to Clinton's email account).Well, what I have to go by is what the FBI found when they investigated the emails and since you don't trust the FBI and I am not psychic it is hard for me to answer those questions (according to the FBI those emails were personal or copies of previously obtained emails)
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
Clinton admitted she deleted them but claims they were "just personal". We only have her word and I don't trust it,
No, we don't just have her word because there was an FBI investigation. You can say: I don't trust HRC, I don't trust the FBI, I don't trust the CIA, I don't trust the NSA, etc. etc. and I obviously can't convince you because you have specifically ruled out all sources of information that could influence your view. That is a world view which is robust in the sense you are unlikely to be challenged but I would ask you to consider if that kind of worldview is one you would find very convincing in other circumstances (I don't trust the scientific community, I don't trust the 9/11 commission, etc. etc.).
I don't see any reason to question his guilt or that investigation as there was actual evidence presented in court.
Yes but that evidence was collected by the FBI which can't be trusted.. or can they be trusted in this case? Who determines when the FBI can be trusted?
Hard evidence is completely lacking in the Trump dossier case, which is why we should question it.
The discussion is not about the Dossier, which I am nearly 100% certain is a fake, but that Russia influenced the election.
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
Simon: Let me get this straight. CIA, FBI, NSA, homeland security, etc. etc., they are all liars and can't be trusted but youtube angry grandpa Sargon of Akkad on the other hand..
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
It's nothing like.
it's like believing that Iraq was behind 9/11 and going to war over it even though we know it was Al-Queda and most of the attackers were Saudi's
Was Tomothy McVeigh responsible for the bombings? Well, we can't know anymore because that was the FBI and we know they are full of it. Who was responsible for the original bombing of the WTC? Well, we can't know because all we got to go on is the FBI and a few other agencies and they are known liars. What about who killed JFK? Well, we can't know because the people who investigated that (FBI?) are known liars etc. etc.
You can't just say: Well, normally it would be nuts to just dismiss the findings of 17 agencies whose findings are accepted even by the people who has the most to loose (well, minus Trump) by accepting their findings, but just in this case we know they are full of it. That's not being consistent.
We don't need to see them. We know they were deleted. Guilty.
Can we just be crystal clear about which deleted emails we are talking about here (i.e. a source to the official investigation).
I know you don't trust the FBI, but this information has to come from somewhere. Insofar as I am aware the emails deleted were personal and determined not to be important.
I think we can focus on both. Clinton's email debacle is a fact. Trump's failures can also be a fact when they are uncovered and I hope they are. But whatever he does will never undo her crimes.
Worse though, making unverifiable and unprovable allegations will end up making him bullet-proof and be able to dismiss possibly future claims as "fake news".
The email thing was determined not to be a crime, the anti-money laundering thing was not a "failure" but a crime for which a 10M fine was handed out. Apples and oranges.
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
I have never convinced anyone who started from the premise the intelligence agencies are all lying and I don't think that will happen today. I will only make one observation:
All the talk recently has been about which celebrities will boycott the inauguration. WTF? Who gives a crap?
Please notice that of the two of us, YOU are the one who is bringing up this topic. That is another tendency I have seen in this election: Opponents of HRC keeps saying that they "keeps bringing up" some ridiculous side point. I don't give a shit about who does what at the election and the way you can tell is that I don't bring it up.
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
They didn't - it was the media that fed the Russian conspiracy. Again, there is ZERO evidence.
Look. This is like first dismissing anything any agency or politician has ever said about 9/11 and then saying there is ZERO evidence that Al-Queda was involved. I can't really make a rational argument against that view.
Why did Comey help Trump? Possibly because of his close ties to Rudy Giuliani? Maybe he's just an idiot - there's apparently an investigation and hopefully we'll find out more.
Okay so let me get this straight. He first signed on to the story about Russia helping Trump which is damaging for Trump. Then he decided to help Trump because of his ties to Rudy Giuliani. I don't think that makes any sense at all.
Not really ... what about the emails sent between Clinton and oooh, maybe some head of state or someone contributing to her "foundation" (which they are now still shutting down ... no influence to sell? what happened to the desire to do good now they have so much free time?)
You are right: Clinton could have had hidden communication with Saudi Arabia, Russia, China, North-Korea and ET and then hid that communication and we wouldn't know because it was hidden. As could any other US official. I can't make a rational argument against that except saying that the FBI investigated it and concluded she didn't delete any emails of importance (by the way, she did not delete emails, she instructed the people handling her emails to hand over all emails related to her job), and you can then dismiss those findings because you believe the head of FBI is in on it or is run by idiots. I can't make an argument against that view except point out I doubt you will accept that type of argument when it is made in favor of the JFK or Roswell conspiracy.
Heck, even Trump seems to accept it, and certainly all the people close to him do.
Well no, he said it may have been the Russians ... but could have been the China (or Jayna as he says it) or some guy in his parents basement in Jersey.
Well: "President-elect Donald Trump acknowledged for the first time here Wednesday that Russia was responsible for hacking the Democratic Party during last year’s election"
I will grant you Trump is fussy on the details...
It doesn't seem like they were using the most advanced techniques or the latest tools.
Well I am not a security expert like you who can evaluate what tools the GRU uses but I suggest you give that information to e.g. Rex Tillerson or someone else who I am sure will be happy to know his boss wasn't helped by Russians as he now believes.
You seem to want lack of something to equal guilt. It doesn't work that way. I don't think they have been treated equally but then they are not equal - not being hacked is not a crime, there's no reason Trump has to hand over any emails or tax returns (now that he won without doing so). But you seem to think these are equal "crimes"?
Well I be damned a moment ago I could have sworn we were talking about what might be in some emails of Clintons none of us have ever seen ;-).
I don't think not handing over tax returns is a crime, of course, but it has been the norm for all other presidents since IIRC Carter and given all the other facts surrounding his business ties to Russia and the conviction for violating anti-money laundering rules it baffles my mind you focus on HRCs hypothetical emails.
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
(1) he has significant financial ties to Russia and associate with known shady Russian people
Not proven and not illegal although should definitely be investigated.
According to his own son he has significant ties to Russia. As for shady people here is just one: he signed to do business with Bayrock Group, owned by Felix Sater, who has mafia ties:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-mafia-linked-figure-describes-association-with-trump/2016/05/17/cec6c2c6-16d3-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html?utm_term=.5b303562f920
(2) one of his companies was found guilty of anti-money laundering violations
Already dealt with and fined.
I will say it now and I will say it again: HRC have not been found guilty of anything. Trumps companies have. Who of the two should draw more suspicion?
(3) Russia interfered on his behalf during the election
Unproven. Obama tried to interfere with the Brexit vote ... what should we do with him?
Believed by 17 agencies and all high-ranking members of the Trump campaign but hey, I will agree that they might all be colluding in a giant coverup.
There is no evidence Obama hacked the Brexit movement and instigate a gigantic campaign of mis-information.
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67
John Lewis: Trump isn't a legitimate president
by Brokeback Watchtower inhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-lewis-trump-isnt-a-legitimate-president/ar-aalqsqs?li=bbmkt5r&ocid=spartanntp.
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bohm
Why is it hard to say "yes, she should not have acted that way and should be held accountable for her actions"?
That's exactly what I think and what happened: She has been the subject of intense investigations whose conclusions I trust (but do you?) which determined no charges should be filed.
Why should we expect Trump to be held accountable if she isn't? Does it help or hurt justice by excusing her actions?
My basic claim is that Trump and HRC should be subject to the same amount of scrutiny, evaluated with the same assumptions of guilt/innocence and be expected to hand over the same amount of information. So far on all counts HRC is being treated much, much worse than Trump.