Posts by bohm

47

Looking for evolutionary info on how smells can be carried on DNA

by Crabby in

as i said last night the smell of pus from an infection is recognized by all puppies without their being exposed to the smell previously, this is shown because all puppies react the same way to this smell, which is to lick the infected pus laden wound.. this demonstrates that smells are carried on dna in some way.

any thoughts on how?.

bohm

How would epigenetics transmit new information if it merely modifies existing genes?

You realize genes are the bits of the DNA that carries most of the information so asking how a process that modifies genes can transmit information is a bit odd!

154

I believe in Evolution and that God created life

by Crabby in

anyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.

bohm

Crabby: the "you don't have an education" routine is getting a bit stale, especially considering many on this forum has done significant reading on science and you aren't exactly coming across as a person who has read too widely.

What's your education?

47

Looking for evolutionary info on how smells can be carried on DNA

by Crabby in

as i said last night the smell of pus from an infection is recognized by all puppies without their being exposed to the smell previously, this is shown because all puppies react the same way to this smell, which is to lick the infected pus laden wound.. this demonstrates that smells are carried on dna in some way.

any thoughts on how?.

bohm

I am soooooooo stupid I am beginning to read the b's as p's lol.

154

I believe in Evolution and that God created life

by Crabby in

anyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.

bohm

Crabby: Well, but here is the thing: The JW population may on average not have advanced education because 1) advanced education is discouraged and 2) if you have advanced education you are more likely to leave.

So here is a brain teaser: If you take those two together, do you think the population of ex-jws necessarily is as uneducated (for lack of a better word) than the jw population?

On this topic, what is your level of education?

154

I believe in Evolution and that God created life

by Crabby in

anyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.

bohm

Crabby: Wait what? you think people on this side are generally uneducated?!

To be honest, the questions you have about the basics of the genetics of the olfactory system kinda indicate you might not be the most diligent and self-critical researcher...

47

Looking for evolutionary info on how smells can be carried on DNA

by Crabby in

as i said last night the smell of pus from an infection is recognized by all puppies without their being exposed to the smell previously, this is shown because all puppies react the same way to this smell, which is to lick the infected pus laden wound.. this demonstrates that smells are carried on dna in some way.

any thoughts on how?.

bohm

Crabby: The genetics of smell is pretty worked out as I wrote on the other thread. We know how the smell receptors arise genetically, and also a bit about how the neural coding of the smells arise in for instance flies. You can read more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_olfaction

What bit is it precisely you question? (i.e. the genetics of the smell receptors or the neural coding?).

26

Can an atheist date jw?

by concernCitizen in

hey everyone!.

first of all, i'm not a jw, in fact i'm an atheist, or if you really want to be technical about it i'm probably something like an agnostic atheist or something.. but, my girlfriend is a jw, she seems very rational about it though, it seems to me that she believes in a lot of it but not exactly all, for instance she does understands and believes in the scientific age of the earth and evolution.. when we started dating almost a year ago she made it clear she as religious person.

i never saw that as a problem, it's not like i'm trying to convert her or she's trying to convert me.

bohm

GG:

She's pulled in two directions and hasn't exactly gravitated towards your side. She's putting herself and the fear for her mother before you. None of these factors are a good bedrock for a budding relationship.

I agree there are serious communication problems, but looking at it from GF's perspective she is likely in the emotional turmoil of her life so I wouldn't judge her to hard on moving back with her parents.. I was nearly in the OPs shoes some years back and I am happy that I stuck it out despite all the WTBS bullshit. If she is special, staying with her and helping her waking up is not the most silly thing a guy has done over a girl :-).

26

Can an atheist date jw?

by concernCitizen in

hey everyone!.

first of all, i'm not a jw, in fact i'm an atheist, or if you really want to be technical about it i'm probably something like an agnostic atheist or something.. but, my girlfriend is a jw, she seems very rational about it though, it seems to me that she believes in a lot of it but not exactly all, for instance she does understands and believes in the scientific age of the earth and evolution.. when we started dating almost a year ago she made it clear she as religious person.

i never saw that as a problem, it's not like i'm trying to convert her or she's trying to convert me.

bohm

concernCitizen:

Disfellowshipping (DF) and Disassociation (DA) are similar in terms of the consequences (she will be cut of by anyone she knows and considered death until she is reinstated, a long process). They differ in that you get disfellowshipped if 1) she is baptized and 2) you are found guilty of a serious sin by a judicial committee (a tribunal of 3 elders), for instance if they learn that you have had sex or just slept under the same roof.

Speaking of which, is she baptized? (this is very important)

DAing is most commonly something she does by writing a letter and asking for it. Otherwise she can be "forcefully" DAd if it for instance is found out she is a member of another religion. Insofar as you are concerned, DF/DA are the same.

The elders have a manual that lay out all these procedures in detail which is secret. She can't know that you are reading it but you can find it online (google: shepherd the flock of God).

If she is baptized, the best thing that can happen from your perspective is that she fade out. You fade out by slowly stopping to go to the meetings, don't do anything "wrong" (like living with you before you are married) and possibly feigning a depression. After a few years they will begin to leave you alone as long as you don't rock the boat. Then she will be said to be "inactive" and you two will get more breathing space. The bad news is that she will likely loose all her friends who are JW and be viewed by her family as someone who couldn't hack the spiritual life and she will constantly reminded (because the JWs are constantly reminded to do so!) that she should "return to Jehovah".

If she is not baptized you two are lucky :-). She can't be DFd or DA. If she choose to be with you it will still disappoint her family a lot (you can expect that you will be a disappointment to her family), but it likely won't have so severe consequences. You can still expect her friends not to stick around since she is obviously not "good association", and my guess would be that if it is found out she is sleeping/living with you it will strain her relationship with her parents a lot.

26

Can an atheist date jw?

by concernCitizen in

hey everyone!.

first of all, i'm not a jw, in fact i'm an atheist, or if you really want to be technical about it i'm probably something like an agnostic atheist or something.. but, my girlfriend is a jw, she seems very rational about it though, it seems to me that she believes in a lot of it but not exactly all, for instance she does understands and believes in the scientific age of the earth and evolution.. when we started dating almost a year ago she made it clear she as religious person.

i never saw that as a problem, it's not like i'm trying to convert her or she's trying to convert me.

bohm

I feel like I'm ready to try my best to clear her mind but I don't even know where to start, I already know about jwfacts and it was even that website that got me here. But just exposing her to their practices problems doesn't seem to be enough.
thx for the responses. If anyone else has more to share please do, I'm even considering showing her this thread.

Don't show her jwfacts if she is the least in, it is very unlikely to change her minds (the author of JWfacts is a mentally diseased apostate according to the standard JW view). As a rule, "facts" about her religion is very unlikely to do anything good no matter how obvious they seem to you. And for the love of jehovah don't show her this thread!

What I think you need to do is to first and foremost work on better communication with her. If she is not comfortable talking about her religion when it comes to objective and non-threatening things (like disfellowshipping), you have very little chance for a good conversation on difficult topics. This is basically step 1 of the book I mentioned :-).

26

Can an atheist date jw?

by concernCitizen in

hey everyone!.

first of all, i'm not a jw, in fact i'm an atheist, or if you really want to be technical about it i'm probably something like an agnostic atheist or something.. but, my girlfriend is a jw, she seems very rational about it though, it seems to me that she believes in a lot of it but not exactly all, for instance she does understands and believes in the scientific age of the earth and evolution.. when we started dating almost a year ago she made it clear she as religious person.

i never saw that as a problem, it's not like i'm trying to convert her or she's trying to convert me.

bohm

Hi,

I am in (roughly) the same situation as you are (atheist dating a JW).

Your girlfriend is a very special kind of JW if she believes in evolution and are at all interested in a non-jw let alone an atheist; this suggests she is not fully "in" her religion but has doubts and may leave (or fade out) of the religion in the future. I wouldn't just advice you to leave her (that's certainly not what I did!) but there are some things I would worry about if I were you: (I assume your girlfriend is baptized; that's a very important piece of information so you should ask her about that)

* Why is she not telling you the truth about her religion? She might be embarrassed or whatever, but it seems to me to be a pretty big thing to not mention. Are you sure she actually believe in evolution? (JWs accept something akin to "change within a kind" and that the earth is 4 billion years old; they just reject common descend and believe man has only been here for about 6000 years).

* If you two stay together it *will* hurt your girlfriend one way or another:

- If she stays in, you are in for some difficult times later on. She will in various ways be made aware she choose the wrong partner, and if your girlfriends family are hardcore you can expect them to put you on the shit list at least until you are married and possibly later. She will be expected to bring up her children "in the truth" (i.e. indoctrinated), not to celebrate birthdays. This will lead to conflicts later on.

- If she leaves (not disassociation but rather just stop goes to meetings), she will be viewed as a bad apple by her family. If her family are "good jws", you should not expect that her family wants anything to do with you until you are married, in fact you should not expect them to show up to your marriage. If she does anything "wrong" (like you two living together), she will be disfellowshipped and not see her family again. Most likely, even if you are married you will still have to hide things from her family because she will still be expected not to celebrate birthdays.

Basically, if you stay together, you guys are in for a giant multi-year shit show no matter what!

If you decide to stay together, I think there are a few things you should do:

1) Don't go Richard Dawkins on her, an in particular don't criticize her religion in such a way she can tell you have searched out ex-jw literature. If she says something you disagree with, try to limit your comments to "common sense" objections ("well, I couldn't imagine shunning my child no matter what"), be humorous and be non-assertive.

2) Work on your communication. Where does she stand in relationship to you? How can you make her comfortable talking about her religion? (ask her). Don't read to much into her living with her mum as she is in a very tough spot.

3) Be aware that if she is baptized (and probably also if not), if she does something "bad" you can expect everyone she knows to rat on her, including herself. In particular, *noone can know* you have had sex or lived together.

4) Educate yourself about cults. Standard atheist literature is completely useless. The best reference is probably Steven Hassan's books, in particular "Combating cult mind-control" (or one of the never). Order it on amazon today.