Posts by bohm

27

A step in the right direction: Denmark banning circumcision as a cruel, barbaric and archaic ritual not fit for modern civilised lands

by Gilbeath Haaraloth in

as you may know, this makes me very happy.

ban on religious circumcision.

relate to a ban in all probability will not stop the millennium old core tradition in many parts of islam and especially judaism.

bohm

reposting:

The article is in a tabloid
The article is in the idiot-section of the tabloid
The article discuss what some people would do if circumcision was banned
circumcision is not banned in Denmark and likely will not be for a long time

27

A step in the right direction: Denmark banning circumcision as a cruel, barbaric and archaic ritual not fit for modern civilised lands

by Gilbeath Haaraloth in

as you may know, this makes me very happy.

ban on religious circumcision.

relate to a ban in all probability will not stop the millennium old core tradition in many parts of islam and especially judaism.

bohm

The article is in a tabloid
The article is in the idiot-section of the tabloid
The article discuss what some people would do if circumcision was banned
circumcision is not banned in Denmark and likely will not be for a long time

90

Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand in

i am working, more in the planning stages, where i am going to offer a commentary on the caleb and sophia cartoons that the org puts out.

i noticed a heavily patriarchal bent to the narrative that these cartoons offer.

i would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

bohm

talesin:

The 'joike' was a passive-aggressive slur, evidenced by the disclaimer, as I explained.

Well, I am sorry but my detection for "passive-aggressive slur" is simply not so fine tuned I can detect it based on two words; If I should make such a slur against a person I would need more evidence.

The joke was made at a lunch and appears to be an off the cuff remark. According to one female audience member the talk was warm and funny, you can hear the recording if you wish.

I don't see Twitter as a valid form of journalistic communication.

I agree, yet he was fired entirely for an (provable) inaccurate account made on twitter.

Academia is full of hypocrisy and politics - as I said, he may be talking out of turn far too much, or has a fat complaint file back at the University.

It also may be the case that he eats babies and the university knows all about it.

Here is one woman relating her experience working under him:

http://www.nature.com/news/judge-by-actions-not-words-1.17823?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20150625

90

Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand in

i am working, more in the planning stages, where i am going to offer a commentary on the caleb and sophia cartoons that the org puts out.

i noticed a heavily patriarchal bent to the narrative that these cartoons offer.

i would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

bohm

talesin:

Oops. This:

“Now seriously,

This demonstrates a specific technique of being critical and deprecating, then softening the blow with a disclaimer. It's called patronization. (and yes, that is the tone - slightly superior, and passive-aggressive, but I ddn't really mean it .. hahaha)

We can agree that the joke isn't very good. But reading the interview, do you get the impression that he does not think women should be allowed in the laboratory? He explicitly says the opposite.

Do you think the way the story was reported on twitter is accurate? (this, btw, was the basis on which he was fired while he was still in his plane)

Do you think he should have been fired?

Regarding the 'where there is smoke there is fire' argument, the "smoke" is ONLY an inaccurate retelling of the event (read the tweet by StLouis). What I do not think has happened afterwards is that former student and colleagues have not come out and said good riddance of that old sexist pig

90

Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand in

i am working, more in the planning stages, where i am going to offer a commentary on the caleb and sophia cartoons that the org puts out.

i noticed a heavily patriarchal bent to the narrative that these cartoons offer.

i would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

bohm

LUHE:

ok, thanks. So, the Catholic woman who follows Deida is a bigot because she prefers Catholic patriarchy over equality?

If she rejects equality then yes. But it is her right to hold that view and if it only affects how she lives her own life it is of little consequence.

This is a non-sequitur - of course it's not. Professor Tim Hunt caused outrage due to his bigoted comments. This outrage only subsided when he resigned.

What happened to Tim Hunt has absolutely nothing to do with a person who is "fed up with the modern system of equality" since this was not what he said.

Imaginary scenario: woman A is having problems(...)man C feels 'othered' by this rant and complains, should woman A lose her job?

no. You are just changing the topic and asking a bunch of irrelevant questions about irrelevant events. It feels a bit lazy and disingenuous on your part.

So let me ask you. When you write:

But men who are fed up with the modern system of equality are smeared as bigots by feminists/hard Left and still have to face consequences

You seem to disagree with me that being "fed up with this modern system of equality" is a bigoted stance. But isn't that pretty much what every:

1) KKK member

2) neo-nazi

3) sexist person

4) islamist

5) homophobe

believes? "I don't hate X, i'm just fed up with this modern system of equality, lets return to traditional (pre-modern) values"

And please do not re-define "modern" to be a "a fringe view held by a minority".

90

Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand in

i am working, more in the planning stages, where i am going to offer a commentary on the caleb and sophia cartoons that the org puts out.

i noticed a heavily patriarchal bent to the narrative that these cartoons offer.

i would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

bohm

Bohm: Isn't a person who is "fed up with the modern system of equality" pretty much a bigot by definition?
LUHE: Does this apply to fed-up women as much as fed-up men?

As a rule yes, unless the person is objecting to the "modern system of equality" itself being discriminatory.

And should people lose their jobs because of expressing bigoted opinions?

This is a non-sequitur, it is just answering my question with an irrelevant question.

Here is an example:

"My name is Bob. I am not a racist, I am just fed up with the modern system of equality between the white and the jews..."

90

Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand in

i am working, more in the planning stages, where i am going to offer a commentary on the caleb and sophia cartoons that the org puts out.

i noticed a heavily patriarchal bent to the narrative that these cartoons offer.

i would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

bohm

talesin: I don't know the particular outlet, wikipedia contains the same information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hunt#Resignations_and_reappointments

90

Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand in

i am working, more in the planning stages, where i am going to offer a commentary on the caleb and sophia cartoons that the org puts out.

i noticed a heavily patriarchal bent to the narrative that these cartoons offer.

i would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

bohm

Talesin: There has recently been some high-profile cases where otherwise respected academics were exposed as having harasses their students. But the case in question (It is about nobel prize winner Tim Hunt) is as far as I know an example of a witch hunt and sensational journalism. Here is one writeup:

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-timothy-hunt-witch-hunt/

n June 8, Hunt was in Seoul to give the opening lecture at the World Conference of Science Journalists. He was also invited to give an informal toast at a luncheon sponsored by the Korea Federation of Women’s Science and Technology Associations. It was this toast—or rather the way it was reported and reacted to—that led to his disgrace.

Speaking for fewer than five minutes, Hunt praised female scientists with whom he has worked, and then he said this:

It’s strange that a chauvinist monster like me has been asked to speak to women scientists. Let me tell you about my trouble with girls. Three things happen when they are in the lab: You fall in love with them, they fall in love with you, and when you criticize them, they cry. Perhaps we should make separate labs for boys and girls.

It is not clear whether Hunt had already mentioned that he and his wife met and fell in love when they were working in his lab, or whether he assumed that everyone in the room was aware of this fact and therefore the context of the remark. Hunt continued: “Now seriously, I’m impressed by the economic development of Korea. And women scientists played, without doubt, an important role in it. Science needs women, and you should do science despite the obstacles and despite monsters like me!”

A few hours after the lunch, a British science journalist named Connie St. Louis sent out a tweet to her followers that read:

Nobel scientist Tim Hunt FRS says at Korean women lunch “I’m a chauvinist and keep ‘girls’ single lab.

Beneath the tweet was a photograph of Hunt and more text by St. Louis: “lunch today sponsored by powerful role model Korean female scientists and engineers. Utterly ruined by sexist speaker Tim Hunt FRS.” (The FRS stands for “Fellow of the Royal Society.”) She went on to give an account of the “trouble with girls” speech that left out his “now seriously” verbal transition and praise of women in science and implied that Hunt was seriously advocating sex-segregated labs.

Shared more than 600 times, the St. Louis tweet ignited a combined Internet, social-media, and then print-media firestorm with astonishing speed. Her observations were repeated in news bulletins across the world. But as has happened before when such Twitter posses gather,1 Hunt himself became aware of it only when the BBC called him as he was about to board a plane to London.

While he was on the flight, the dean of life sciences at University College, London, telephoned his wife—herself a full professor at the school—to say that if Hunt did not immediately resign, he would be fired. No one at University College had even tried to get his side of the story or any independent confirmation of the incident described by Connie St. Louis. On the contrary, two of Hunt’s colleagues had started lobbying against him as soon as they saw the tweets. One of them, Dorothy Bishop, sent this message to the Dean on June 9: “Could we ask that he not be on any appointments or promotions committee given his views.” Another, David Colquhoun, started a Twitter hashtag called #Huntgate and called for Hunt to be expelled from the Royal Society as well as University College. And in short order Hunt was indeed made to resign from the Royal Society’s awards committee and the European Research Commission

90

Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand in

i am working, more in the planning stages, where i am going to offer a commentary on the caleb and sophia cartoons that the org puts out.

i noticed a heavily patriarchal bent to the narrative that these cartoons offer.

i would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

bohm

LUHE: But men who are fed up with the modern system of equality are smeared as bigots by feminists/hard Left and still have to face consequences.

Isn't a person who is "fed up with the modern system of equality" pretty much a bigot by definition?

90

Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand in

i am working, more in the planning stages, where i am going to offer a commentary on the caleb and sophia cartoons that the org puts out.

i noticed a heavily patriarchal bent to the narrative that these cartoons offer.

i would really enjoy working with someone who has an academic background in feminist philosophy, or at least someone knowledgeable.

bohm

Well, I think there is still a lot of good reasons to have a feminism movement which fights for women's rights, however feminism has never been a very coherent group, and recently things seem to have gotten worse. To get an idea about the mental climate of *some* feminists (my sexist impression: mostly male feminists), I recommend people to follow Michael Nugents blog: http://www.michaelnugent.com/ He is currently undergoing some kind of assault. For those who don't know, Michael Nugent is like the least controversial person you can imagine, but he is getting called all kinds of things for no sensible reasons.

For those who want a bit of background, here is on feminist (ex feminist?) who explains why she no longer call herself feminist along with her view of where (the bad parts of) the current movement has gone wrong:

http://helensatheistblogs.blogspot.dk/2016/02/why-i-no-longer-identify-as-feminist.html?m=1

At its height, postmodernism as an artistic movement produced non-chronological, plotless literature and presented urinals as art. In social theory, postmodernists 'deconstructed' everything considered true and presented all as meaningless. However, having done this, there was nowhere else to go and nothing more to say. In the realm of social justice, nothing can be accomplished unless we accept that certain people in a certain place experience certain disadvantages. For this, a system of reality needs to exist, and so new theories of gender and race and sexuality began to emerge comprised of mininarratives. These categories were held to be culturally constructed and constructed hierarchically to the detriment of women, people of colour and LGBTs. Identity was paramount.

Liberal feminist aims gradually shifted from the position:

"Everyone deserves human rights and equality, and feminism focuses on achieving them for women."

to

"Individuals and groups of all sexes, races, religions and sexualities have their own truths, norms and values. All truths, cultural norms and moral values are equal. Those of white, western, heterosexual men have unfairly dominated in the past so now they and all their ideas must be set aside for marginalised groups."

Liberal feminism had shifted from the universality of equal human rights to identity politics. No longer were ideas valued on their merit but on the identity of the speaker and this was multifaceted, incorporating sex, gender identity, race, religion, sexuality and physical ability. The value of an identity in social justice terms is dependent on its degree of marginalisation, and these stack up and vie for primacy. This is where liberal feminism went so badly wrong. When post-colonial guilt fought with feminism, feminism lost. When it fought with LGBT rights, they lost too.

So aware of Western imperialism having trampled on other cultures historically, western liberal feminism now embraced their most patriarchal aspects. A western liberal feminist can, on the same day, take part in a slut walk to protest western women being judged by their clothing and accuse anyone criticising the niqab of Islamophobia. She can demand the prosecution of a Christian baker for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same sex-couple, and condemn the planning of a Gay Pride march through a heavily Muslim area as racist. Many intersectional feminists do not limit themselves to the criticism of other white, western feminists but pour vitriolic, racist abuse on liberal Muslim and ex-Muslim feminists and LGBT activists. The misogyny and homophobia of Christianity may be criticised by all (quite rightly) but the misogyny and homophobia of Islam by none, not even Muslims. The right to criticise one's own culture and religion is seemingly restricted to white westerners. (The best analysis of 'The Racism of Some Anti-racists' is by Tom Owolade.)