I agree. It's a journey. Baby steps, baby steps. The cult left me shell-shocked, but my analytical thinking skills are ready for business. I'm in no hurry. I no longer fear a tyrant God that hates Chinese people and children. (If Armageddon came tomorrow, JWs believe hundreds of millions of Chinese and childen would die.)
leavingwt
JoinedPosts by leavingwt
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
Jaguar,
You're making is so easy for me!
Haha.
-Donny
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
Ok, so if you meant George Bush as the president well,
there was another George Bush who also was president.
One is the father and the other the son. It's not that you
aren't better or anyone is inferior. It's that they both were
presidents and you're not... well, yet, anyhow.The fact that there have been dozens of Presidents of the
United States doesn't mean at all that they are all somehow
united in their different persons in one essence of being.The Father is greater. The Son is lesser. Where does that
leave the Holy Spirit?The President analogy was in regards to Jesus' words, "the Father is greater than I". Below is a clearer analogy. (GWB and I are not involved in this one. LOL)
Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature ( Col. 2:9 ). He became a man to die for people.
A comparison can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. But, he is no different in nature and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, being human, and they work together by love.
So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinnersThis helped me to understand why most Christians I conversed with while engaging in the door-to-door ministry could read the Scripture about the Father being "greater" than Jesus, but it would not shake their Trinitarian beliefs, one bit. For me as a JW, the Scripture was a "proof text", clearly demonstrating the Trinity to be a false teaching, plain and simple. They, on the other hand, had an alternate explanation for that very Scripture, that did not contradict their beliefs. My JW training left me ill-equipped to convince a well-read Baptist or Presbyterian that the Trinity contradicted the Scriptures, because I didn't understand their point of view. I've since then learned that they can provide a thoughtful response to every single JW proof text.
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
Thank you, LayingLow.
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
But you are trying to promote the Trinity.
You say you aren't but by bringing it up you are trying to "teach" and "preach"
about it on this board. That's how I read it. If I misunderstand you, I apologize.Indeed, I have been misunderstood. I thank you for the heads-up, and I will choose my words more carefully, next time.
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
George Bush, meaning The President. (You may subsitute Senator, Prime Minister, etc.)
I should have stated, "The President is greater than me, however he is not better. I am not inferior to the President. His office/station is undoubtedly greater."
Sorry for the confusion.
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
I agree about the 144,000 as being a symbolic number. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
The point was that the 144,000 are 'the Bride', meaning the Bride is many persons. The term 'Bride' does not refer to one person.
I am in total agreement, regarding Christian Freedom. I'm personally on a journey to decide exactly what I do believe and whether or not I'm a person of faith.
Upon leaving the JWs, I wanted to understand why mainstream Christianity teaches the Trinity doctrine. If the doctrine is as stupid as WT had led me to believe, it didn't make sense that this teaching persisted for thousands of years. I quickly realized I didn't have a clue what the Trinity was. Nor, was it easy for me to wrap my head around, because I had preconceived notions about all of the words used to describe the specifics.
One of the more helpful lectures I listened to, was this two-part sermon, designed specifically for a JW audience, regarding the Trinity. It is beneficial, even if only it helps you to understand what a clergyman means when he says 'Trinity'.
http://www.waltermartin.com/audio_clips/trinity.ram (Part I)
http://www.waltermartin.com/audio_clips/trinity2.ram (Part II)
You'll need RealPlayer (ugh) or Media Player Classic to listen to this streaming content. He's quite a lively speaker, and his knowledge of Greek is impressive.
Again, I'm not saying this is true. What I am saying is that it helped me to understand what the doctrine is all about, and why man Christians believe it. It helped remove much of the mystery surrounding what had previously been a belief that I had scorned, without even understanding.
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
If Jesus were God himself how could only the Father know and how could he be inferior?
In your statement above, I believe you are saying, "If Jesus were the Father himself". From a Trinitarian standpoint, Jesus is not the Father. He is the Son. The Father is indeed greater than the Son. It's a matter of position, or office, not of essence. As an example, George Bush is greater than me, but he is not better than me.
In this light, when I use the term "God", I am referring to three persons, not the Father.
(Please, I don't want anyone to misinterpret my comments as promoting the Trinity. Rather, I'm trying to explain it, as best as I can, based upon my studies. This, in contrast to Watchtower, which lied to me about the doctrine.)
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
Christ has only one Bride. His Bride is made up of 144,000 persons. The 'Bride' is not one person. Neither is 'God'.
This is my simplest explanation of the basic gist of the doctrine.
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64
Has the WTBS ever explained the trinity?
by wobble inif i were going to comment on a deep philosophical doctrine, i would first outline what that doctrine was,has the wtbs ever dne this properly with the trinity?
from memory they have only ever reasoned at the level"one plus one plus one = 3, not one" type of argument,and odd references to trinities in pagandom.. surely a college education would be of benefit to them so they know how to present a thesis?.
love.
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leavingwt
It can not be explained by human logic.
I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.
Walter Martin once said that just because you or I cannot explain how a nuclear power plant works, that doesn't mean that it is beyond comprehension.