Posts by HildaBingen

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:Hilda, have you ever considered the concept of criminal activity? Do you consider the protection of a child molester, or a murderer, or a thief to be the proper exercise of ecclesiastical privilege? Do you consider it proper for parents to be advised to "leave things in Jehovah's hands" when their child's safety is concerned? Do you consider it proper to have this child denied justice for the crimes committed against them?:

Let us set my statements in context, shall we, dear? One participant in this place suggested that the superior authorities should handle all cases of molestation in the organization and that the elders should have nothing to do with matters. I think that idea is not feasible from a biblical standpoint, dear. Let us say that "privilege" should not be invoked and that cases involving abuse should be turned over to the proper authorities. Does that mean that the elders, simply because they are "untrained" should have nothing to do with the case? Not according to God, it does not mean that, hon.

:

If Bowen is kicked out--it will not be for his child advocacy, we can assure you. You are just a biggot.

You can assure us of this? How? Bill Bowen has asked that any "sins" he has committed be made public. Can you tell us the Society's reply to this? Other than the nebulous "causing divisions" that they have so far listed, and which is meaningless.:

Look at what Bowen is during before the public now. Look at his posts in this place. I am not saying that Bowen should be DF for his dissident sentiments. But if he Df, anyone in her right mind should be able to see why.

:And why does Dakota's statement make him a bigot? Could you please explain your reasoning on this? Throwing out insults does not give them validity. Perhaps you were not aware of this.:

Read the title of this thread, dearie. That alone tells me that dakota is a biggot.

:

The jw was not justifying cases in the jw religion.

Interesting. Could you please show evidence of the WTBTS beginning to take action to rid its congregations of pedophiles? Something other than empty rhetoric, which is all I've seen happen so far.:

What do your questions have to do with my words that you quote? The jw was not justifying cases of abuse in jw religion. Anybody that cannot see that fact needs her head examined.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

Mr dakota:

:Hilda, as usual, you are way out in left field on this one. Currently, the Cathoilic Church is under more fire than any other relgion is over the issue. I openly state many times that the problem is pandemic across all relgious boundaries. But, no one else but the JWs are booting out the child advocates and victims and often, reinstating the pedophile shortly after they are DF'd.:

Your statements about the jw's site and jws in general are misrepresentative. Show us where anyone has been kicked out of jws for being a "child advocate" or a victim of child abuse. It might have happened in rare cases. But this ol' lady can almosty guarantee you that the wrong was in time righted. If Bowen is kicked out--it will not be for his child advocacy, we can assure you. You are just a biggot.

:If there are more cases in another religion, that hardly justifies any cases at all in the JWs. One is one too many!:

We agree. The jw was not justifying cases in the jw religion. You are just twisting facts to suit your own biased fancy.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:You got it all wrong again. Repentance is only of value when it is genuine and rendered in godly fear.

Oh, you must really be mystical then Greg. Here you are indirectly claiming to read the hearts of others as a voodoo priest would. I agree that 'Repentance is only of value when it is genuine and rendered in godly fear', because God has nothing to do with it. (I realize this is not what you meant, but I used the term "godly" in a different way than you talk about in my 'suckian language') :

I cannot read hearts, dear. If reading hearts were required, then the Christian congregation would not be able to reinstate or allow anyone to be a part of it. all we have to go by are fruits of repentance. Until a person proves that she is irreformable, we continue to lovingly deal with her.

:Since you already acknowledge the authorities as superior, why not encourage the elders to allow the ones professionally trained to deal with the situation handle the situation, instead of "untrained volunteers"?:

Have you ever heard of the separation of church and state? Are you so faithless so as to doubt Yahweh's ability to qualify his own for his service?

l'kiddush hashem.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:And you're missing the point when you say "a few cases" of molestation, or haven't you bothered to read Silentlambs website? Have you bothered to read so many of the personal experiences that are posted here and that reveal somewhat the extent of this problem in the WTS?:

I have read some of the silent website. But you cannot believe everything you read. I also say that Bowen's figures are probably wrong. He does not even know. Let say that there are 23,000 in US alone. That is still few in comparison to faithful jws. Not to minimize matters doh.

:Oh, and last I heard, other churches haven't been denouncing the JW org and holding themselves up as better than them because of their singular communication with Jehovah and stance as the "only true organization". Now the WTS is finally getting called on it...bout time.:

Have you had your head in the sand? Other churches persecute jws all the time. That is why Greg Stafford wrote his book JWD.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:Well, since all of us use are fleshful brains with corresponding synapse, nerves, and other related structures, than I would say about the only damn way you could think is according to the 'sinful flesh', because the 'sinful flesh' originates the 'sinful thought'.:

You obviously have no idea what I am talking about. I am sorry that I gave you credit for having at least some knowledge of Pauline mystical language. Brother Paul obviously uses the word "flesh" in a different way than you talk about. Sorry for imputing such knowledge to you.

:Jeez, if that's doesn't sound like catholicism. Go out and rape/molest/steal, and BEG for forgiveness, because you can.:

You got it all wrong again. Repentance is only of value when it is genuine and rendered in godly fear.

:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should we then tell the whole neighborhood that she is a pedo, after she repents?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, we should tell the whole neighborhood that she was a pedo, and that she at one time 'peedo'd'.:

If the state required such action I would agree for then superior authoritties would come into play. Otherwise, I say let the elders handle matters according to Paul and the rest of Bible.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:Well this is new light isn't it!

Christians are taught to hate the sin and love the sinner.

Would you like the WT quote particulars about how sometimes the sin is too bad, or has happened too many times, then you must hate the person. If anyone remembers the adjectives used in this paragraph, I am sure Hilda would love to hear how they teach to love the sinner.:

The Bible tells me to hate those who hate Yahweh. I also read that there is a sin that incurs death and one that does not. My comments had reference to the latter type of sin and not to the former. You probably know about the Catholic distinction that is made between cardinal sin and venial sin. I think kinda like that. Besides Jude 23--"save them by snatching them out of the fire. But continue showing mercy to others, doing so with fear, while you hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh."

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:Hilda, do two wrongs make a right? In other words it's OK to expect JW's to have pedophiles because their numbers don't compare with that of other churches? What are you smoking?:

No I am not saying that two wrongs make a right. The jw is not saying that either. Read his web page. His argument seems to be that while people are fixating on a few cases of "pedophilia" within the org, there are plenty of other cases occurring in other churches. All these cases, he says, are "lamentable."

:Yes they are 'approving' of pedophilia, how, by not correcting it and warning congregation members and the 'superior authorities!!!!!':

I know it is hard for those who think according to the sinful flesh to see this point. But the jws are trying to balance God's interests as they see them, with positive law. This balancing act is not always easy. Christians are taught to hate the sin and love the sinner. If a person repents of any sin, she should be forgiven. Should we then tell the whole neighborhood that she is a pedo, after she repents?

:Heaven forbid if this happens to 'your' child.:

I hope it never happens to anybody's child.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

Has anyone here read any greek histoiry? Do you recall the stories about the noble greeks who thought that young boys were just the best thing since sliced bread? Pedophilia is wrong. That i will say. But it is only a crime, as my comment about the greeks shows, when the government says it is a crime. However God says that any sex relations or fondling outside of marriage is a sin. Pedophilia is always a sin then. It was a sin in Alexander the Great's day even when it was not a crime. It remains a sin today. Jws do right when they oppose this sin. They obey God rather than men.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:The fact that there are pedophiles anywhere, in any churches, including those of Jehovah's Witnesses is indeed lamentable. But what is also lamentable is that many think that this story is indigenous to JW's alone.:

I think this Jw hit the proverbial nail on the head. Pedophilia is lamentable. It is also probably rare among jws. Only bigotted persons would present such information as dakota has presented it. The jw is not advocating or approving of pedos.

29

The Mystical View of Races

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

"there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in christ jesus".

galatians 3:28

HildaBingen

Dear 4christ:

:What would you think if the figure is accurate? I suppose the only way to know for sure would be to check the files at the WT. I dont see them being forthcoming with that information. Perhaps at some point, they will be compelled by the courts to be forthcoming with that information.:

I think that it is hard to know what the true figure is. That does not give Bowen the right to just pluck a number out of the air. Checking the files of the WT would not help because you and I both know that some cases of molestation go unreported. So do you think it is fair to again blame matters on the WT? If the courts force that info out of them, then so be it.

:Besides, the exact number is not important. The issue is,
DOES THE WATCHTOWER HAVE POLICIES IN PLACE THAT PROTECT PEDOPHILES?:

The exact or near-exact number is important when we are talking about being truthful. I agree, if the WT has policies that enable molesters, that is bad. but at this point we do not know the answer to that question. We do, however, know that Bowen is claiming there are 23,000 cases of molestation in the US alone among Witnesses. I do not think he is being truthful. Or--at least he is not being scientific.

:Why do you take a not confirming or denying stance of affiliation? If you ARE, why wouldnt you admit it? Is it something to be ashamed of? If you arent , why wouldnt you admit that? Silence speaks louder than words. I will assume you are indeed a JW until you say otherwise.:

I take a non-confirming stance because I think some things transcend religious affiliation. You can consider me whatever you will. But I stand for Christ and truth.

:saying that you would give Bill more credit if he werent a disgruntled JW also gives you away. Why is that? Would you give less credit to someone who spoke out about the Catholic pedo-priests and was "disgruntled" with that church than someone who continued in the Catholic faith? besides, seems the policies are what made him "disgruntled" in the first place.:

The disgruntled are always hard to trust. Even among the Catholics. I am not saying that disgruntled victims are always being less than honest. But Bowen has never been molested, to my knowledge.

:He is an insider, was an elder, knows what goes on at those meetings. He took a big risk throwing himself out there. Why shouldnt I believe him?:

Do you know both sides of the story. If not, proceed with caution.

:What possible motive would cause him to "invent" this?
I agree that people should not invent stories to make an org. (or an individual for that matter) look bad. What stories have been "invented"?:

I am still trying to figure out Bowen's motives. But I do think that he invented (or someone else did) the number 23,000. Bowen also told private details about JC meetings he sat on. That is not ethical.