Before reading this message from 1995 that indicates that Jesus changed what he was saying directly to his “faithful and discrete slave”, ask yourself these questions….
1. Are you the one who initiated the obsession with dates and times in Bible prophecy?
2. Did you decide on your own to focus on figuring out the exact year when Armageddon was going to occur?
3. Did you decide to figure out one day while you were all alone just what the term “a generation” means, and decide on your own what to believe about that?
4. How did you influence the “faithful and discrete slave” and cause them to focus so often on the exact year when Armageddon would occur and people would be destroyed?
5. Why did you purposely decide to neglect the message of the ransom sacrifice and instead spend so much time looking forward to Armageddon?
6. Where did you get your ideas about the “faithful and discrete slave” knowing the correct dates of when catastrophic things were going to happen that the Bible was not specific about?
7. When did you become so unfaithful to Jehovah that even professors of History knew the correct information while you did not, even though you have been fed the correct spiritual food the entire time?
Watchtower, November 1, 1995, Pgs. 16-19
5 After prophesying events leading up to a time of “great tribulation,” Jesus added: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:3-36; Mark 13:3-32)
We do not need to know the exact timing of events.
Rather, our focus must be on being watchful, cultivating strong faith, and keeping busy in Jehovah’s service—not on calculating a date.
Jesus concluded his great prophecy by saying: “Keep looking, keep awake, for you do not know when the appointed time is. . . . Keep on the watch . . . What I say to you I say to all, Keep on the watch.” (Mark 13:33-37) Danger lurks in the shadows of today’s world. We must keep awake!—Romans 13:11-13.
6 Not only must we pay attention to the inspired prophecies concerning these final days of a wicked system but we must anchor our faith primarily on the precious sacrifice of Christ Jesus and God’s marvelous promises based thereon. (Hebrews 6:17-19; 9:14; 1 Peter 1:18, 19; 2 Peter 1:16-19)
Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah’s people have at times speculated about the time when the “great tribulation” would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914.
However, we “bring a heart of wisdom in,” not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation, but by thinking about how we “count our days” in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah. (Psalm 90:12)
Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.
7 In line with the above, professor of history Robert Wohl wrote in his book The Generation of 1914: “A historical generation is not defined by its chronological limits . . . It is not a zone of dates.” But he pointed out that World War I created “an overwhelming sense of rupture with the past,” and he added: “Those who lived through the war could never rid themselves of the belief that one world had ended and another begun in August 1914.”
How true that is! It focuses on the crux of the matter.
“This generation” of mankind since 1914 has experienced appalling changes. It has seen the earth drenched with the blood of millions. Warfare, genocide, terrorism, crime, and lawlessness have erupted worldwide. Famine, disease, and immorality have stalked our globe. Jesus prophesied: “You also, when you [his disciples] see these things occurring, know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, This generation will by no means pass away until all things occur.”—Luke 21:31, 32.
8 Yes, the complete triumph of the Messianic Kingdom is at hand!
Is anything to be gained, then, by looking for dates or by speculating about the literal lifetime of a “generation”? Far from it!
Habakkuk 2:3 clearly states: “The vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late.” Jehovah’s day of accounting hastens ever closer.—Jeremiah 25:31-33; Malachi 4:1.
9 When Christ’s Kingdom rule began in 1914, Satan was hurled down to earth. This has meant “woe for the earth . . . because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.” (Revelation 12:12) That time is short, indeed, compared with the thousands of years of Satan’s rulership. The Kingdom is at hand, and so is Jehovah’s day and hour for executing judgment on this wicked generation!—Proverbs 3:25; 10:24, 25.
Pickled
JoinedPosts by Pickled
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Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Awake!, November 8, 1994, Pg. 10, “The Real Significance of 1914”
The Real Significance of 1914
AS INDICATED on page 4, “this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.”
****No doubt many of our readers find that statement surprising. Yet, as far back as December 1879—some 35 years before 1914—The Watchtower (then known as Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence) gave Bible evidence proving that 1914 would be a significant year. Even before this—in the middle of the 19th century—other students of the Bible had hinted that 1914 was possibly a year marked in Bible prophecy.
Prophecy has been described as history written in advance. This feature of the Bible gives evidence of its divine origin. In addition to telling us of future events, the Bible sometimes gives the length of time that will elapse before something is to occur. Some of these specific prophecies refer to a few days, some to years, and others to centuries.
Daniel, who prophesied about the time for the Messiah’s first appearance, also revealed when the Messiah would return for his “presence” at what is called “the time of the end.” (Daniel 8:17, 19; 9:24-27) This Bible prophecy stretches over a long period of time, not for just a few hundred years, but for more than two millenniums—2,520 years! At Luke 21:24, Jesus calls this period “the appointed times of the nations.”
1914 Initiates a Time of Distress
The fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that we have been living in the time of the end since 1914. Jesus described this time as ‘beginning with pangs of distress.’ (Matthew 24:8) At Revelation 12:12, we read: “Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.” This explains why the world has been in greater turmoil since 1914.
This time of the end is, however, to be a relatively short period—stretching over one generation. (Luke 21:31, 32) The fact that we are now ***80 years beyond 1914 indicates that we can soon expect the deliverance that God’s Kingdom will bring. This means that we will see “the lowliest one of mankind”—Jesus Christ—take complete control of “the kingdom of mankind” and bring about a peaceful and just new world.—Daniel 4:17.
****Yes, in 1879 they gave evidence that it was a significant year. But not the year of Christ's return. That year was 1874. In 1919, they still believed that Christ returned in 1874. The "faithful and discrete slave" that they now say was appointed in 1919 was appointed while they were not even aware of when Christ returned. In 1919 it was believed by all Bible Students that the "faithful and discrete slave" consisted on one man only, and that man was Charles Russell. If Charles Russell was the only "faithful and discrete slave" appointed in 1919 while he was dispensing misunderstandings, and false teachings that will, today, get you disfellowshipped if you believe those teachings...
When did the "faithful and discrete slave" become a "body" of men instead of just one man?
How did the "faithful and discrete slave", in whom you place all of your faith, pass that inspection by Jesus without Jesus noticing all the wrong teachings they were "dispensing"?
Do you know that if you were to remove all the things that were being taught in 1919 that the WTBTS now says were wrong, what you would have left from that time is the same teachings that other religions were "dispensing" as well? So why did Jesus then choose Russell with his wrong teachings, and completely disregard others?
***This indicates that it has been 80 years since 1914. That means that the members of the generation who Jesus said are going to survive to Armageddon are at least 80 years old now. This means that the "faithful and discrete slave" will need to quickly come up with a reason to say that Jesus changed his mind and extended the time of the end. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
I feel a sense of sadness sometimes, like someone feels who survived a crash and others did not. I studied, I considered, and then was able to say no thank you and walk away.
It isn't the sheer amount of contradictions and lies that seem so disturbing to me. It is the methods they use over and over, year after year, to convince the members to believe them.
They say they have been appointed by Jesus Christ to interpret the Bible for their believers.
They say that the believers should never read the Bible exclusively or they will be turned away from God if they do.
They say that it is only the literature they produce about the Bible that will lead the believers to God.
They say that their only purpose is to relay those messages. Messages that come from the lips of Jesus Christ.
They say that the believers are supposed to treat all and every one of those messages as spiritual food that they are supposed to digest and act on.
They provide wrong information, and do not admit it is wrong until the date has passed and the believers ask why those words from Jesus didn't happen.
They blame the believers for taking them too literally.
The believers need to do more about their own spirituality.
The believers always need to do more as they are waiting for more messages that have new and exciting information that contradicts the previous new and exciting information.
This cycle, at times, just breaks my heart. These are sheep who are being tossed about. -
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Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Hi IP_SEC, how are you? I decided to find all the dates and references and post them on this thread because of the topic, so that anyone who is currently studying with the JW and cannot spend a lot of time researching can read this all in one spot.
Maybe a Witness or two will also read and perhaps this one time a "New Light" may begin to dawn on their horizon. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Watchtower, July 1, 1990, Pg. 26, “Settling the Universal Issue for Good”
10 By now, more than 70 years after that battle in the heavens, only “a short period of time” remains before the war of Jehovah’s great day breaks out and God vividly displays himself as Jehovah of armies to the present generation of mankind.—Revelation 12:12; Zechariah 14:3. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Watchtower, March 1, 1984, Pg. , “Kingdom Unity a Reality Today”
Why “Kingdom” Unity
12 Why do we say, Kingdom unity? Well, is not God’s Kingdom the theme of the entire Bible? So, then, should not the Kingdom be a unifying theme in our lives? It has been thrilling to see the fulfillment of Jesus’ sign showing that the Kingdom was established in the heavens in that momentous year 1914. And **Jesus has told us** to rejoice at seeing the dark storm clouds of Armageddon gathering since that time.
**He has told us that the “generation” of 1914—the year that the sign began to be fulfilled—”will by no means pass away until all these things occur.”** (Matthew 24:34) Some of that “generation” could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that “the end” is much closer than that!
It is important to compare the things that they claimed Jesus said with the things that they are claiming Jesus is saying today concerning this same topic. Is Jesus saying the same thing today that he said all the way up to 1995? Why did Jesus change his mind?
Isn't Jesus the one who has a definite plan? Doesn't Jesus get his instructions from Jehovah, his father?
Isn't the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" the one who Jesus appointed as HIS "Channel of Communication"?
If you were Jesus, is this the group you would have appointed? Based on what? -
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Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Watchtower, November 15, 1982, Page 7, “Flee While There is Yet Time!”
"Yes, it is very urgent to pay attention to the work that God is having done in the earth today in fulfillment of Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:14: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” Those who do pay heed and flee will be living testimony forever to the certainty of the Bible’s promise, which says: “Jehovah will not forsake his people.” (Psalm 94:14) And Jesus said: “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”—Matthew 24:13.
The time for God to execute judgment against Christendom and her “holy place” is near. The desolater is soon to strike, ending any further opportunity to flee to Jehovah’s protection. Have you already fled to the symbolic “mountains”? If not, then do not delay. It means your very life.—Zephaniah 1:14-18; 2:3." -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
While studying with the Witnesses, I asked about the emphasis on dates and warnings about not allowing any planning for the future to get in the way of the preaching work.
The answer I received from several was that since 1975, the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" reorganized and has replaced an emphasis on those previous things with an emphasis on the preaching work. The "Light" continues to get brighter and brighter, and all of the "New Light" is now about those basic truths in the Bible and the preaching work, and those messages that were "over zealous" and "misunderstood" are no longer part of the message.
That means that the Witnesses who made the mistake of believing the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" up to 1975, and were reprimanded for it, can now breathe a sigh of relief because this same "Faithful and Discrete Slave" is longer doing the same thing. This means that the members no longer receive literature that includes warnings or interpretations about when the end of the world will occur. This means that the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" has stopped sending the members those messages that created the dilemma of whether or not to interpret them literally.
Yes, that's what that means. It means that the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" humbly recognized the chaos they created among their faithful believers, and have vowed since 1975 to never do that to them again.
Watchtower, March 1, 1988, Page 21, Childbearing Among God’s People
Childbearing Today
15 How should Christians view marriage and childbearing today, in this “time of the end”? (Daniel 12:4) It is truer than ever that “the scene of this world is changing,” or, as another translation puts it, “the present scheme of things is rapidly passing away.”—1 Corinthians 7:31, Phillips.
16 Now, as never before, “the time left is reduced.” Yes, only a limited time remains for Jehovah’s people to finish the work he has given them to do, namely: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)
That work must be accomplished before the end comes. It is, therefore, appropriate for Christians to ask themselves how getting married or, if married, having children will affect their share in that vital work. -
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Anyone have any thoughts about this?
by Connaughty incheck out this movie trailer scene that supports creation.. http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playgroundvideo3.swf.
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i thought that it was interesting.
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Pickled
Velvetann, you said that you feel it is obvious that you have been hiding your head in the sand out of fear.
Your head, or your mind, is where all logic and reasoning takes place. When you embrace a religion that insists that you adopt their logic and abandon your own, it creates anxiety. Anxiety is an emotion that started out as a thought. Your normal and natural initial thoughts were to compare your own existing logic with the logic you felt you were required to adopt. That is a built in survival tool; evaluating, comparing. When you began to discover that you were not allowed to do that openly, that’s when the internal anxiety began. When you got far enough down that road of abandoning your own logic and replacing it with theirs, you became dependent on their thoughts. You began to find it difficult at that point to fully engage your own independent thoughts as a human with a mind. You felt guilty if you did as though you were betraying those who insisted that their logic was the only logic you were supposed to have.
That is how a cult works. That is why it takes so long to recover and lose the fear. It takes a while because it is not just a matter of leaving. When you leave you take your same now handicapped brain with you. That can be very scary to wander back out into life again with all of your new mental limitations and no one to tell you what to think anymore. It takes time to regain your senses. It takes time to rebuild your confidence in your own ability to think for yourself. It takes time to recognize day by day that you still have the same thinking abilities you had before you joined the cult. It takes time to be able to recognize once again that you have an identity as an individual apart from the collective group. It takes time to retrain yourself to trust your own thoughts. It takes time to reintroduce your own thoughts to yourself as valid thoughts.
When someone has suffered a brain injury, everyone feels compassion for the one who they know is going to need some time to regain what they once had. When someone comes out of a coma and appears to have recovered physically, there is still that period of time needed to catch up with the rest of the world mentally.
You are no different. Your mind needs compassion as well. I think personally that tucking your head away in the sand for a time was a survival instinct, and isn’t it great that you recognized that and allowed yourself to act on it this time? That’s progress. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
-
-
Pickled
By their own claims, the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” had “…NO SCRIPTURAL GROUNDS FOR ANY CLAIMS” leading up to or during 1975.
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” was appointed in 1919 based on the fact that they were providing the “Proper Food” (accurate teaching), at the “Proper Time” (aware of the correct time of Jesus presence).
The “Food” and the “Times” that were being “dispensed” from 1879 to 1919 and beyond….also have been retracted as “misunderstandings.” They did not believe in 1919 that Jesus returned in 1914. They were completely unaware at the time they were appointed that “Faithful and Discrete Slave” that the Master was even knocking at all.
This means that from 1879 up to 1975, the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” was dispensing improper food at improper times.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the one and only time Jesus inspected the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” and APPROVED them for that role, was in 1919.
They believe that Jesus personally appointed a group of people to dispense the secret meanings and hidden interpretations of the scriptures while at the same time that same group was dispensing numerous erroneous teachings that they later confirmed were false.
If they managed to fool Jesus in 1919 then possibly they are capable of fooling you as well.