Posts by flipper

13

No Natural Affection

by Sail Away in

do you remember how the wt society likes to quote the scriptures that say "the love of the greater number will cool off" in "the last days" and men will have "no natural affection"?

they applied this to "worldly people".

even before my exit i, used to think that scripture applied to members of the "christian congregation" too.. i haven't written to my jw mil in about a year and a half.

SAIL AWAY- I feel for you and your husband. I have observed in the 11 years that I've been out of the JW's that my staunch JW extended family gets colder and more inhumane as each year passes. Unfortunately they're trained by the WT Society and mind controlled and conditioned to be this way.

My 87 yr.old JW mom is NOT this way as she and I are really close- almost a year ago my elder 89 yr.old dad warehoused her into an assisted living facility instead of letting her have in-home care which he most definitely could afford to do if he wanted to. But I believe in the 67 years of marriage my dad is punishing my mom for always having an independent mind even as a JW questioning his decisions at times. Now in HIS mind he doesn't have to hear it everyday. The man is disgusting in my view. He told my older JW sister that he finds his own gay grandson's homosexuality " sickening " and refused to see my non-Witness nephew and his partner. Then my older sister REPEATED what my dad said to her son, my nephew.

I find my JW's family behavior barbaric and disgusting, and so does my mom. Then I have 2 adult JW daughters who are 28 yrs.old and 26 yrs.old , pioneers . who ave shunned me and my non-JW son ( aged 29 ) for 11 years now. I call just to say hello, and my daughters NEVER return my phone calls. This is the result we get when an unethical, corrupt, mind control cult steals the minds of our loved ones and family. It's hard not to take it personally because we are human- but the lion's share of the blame I put on the shoulders of WT Society leaders who create these inhumane monsters of human beings. WT leaders skate away not taking ANY responsibility for these monsters that they've created. Hopefully WT leaders will pay for their crimes against families and humanity someday. One can only hope

16

WTS reform - is it possible?

by LoveUniHateExams in

in threads concerning islam i've consistently argued for reforming the religion.

it unfortunately has pre-enlightenment doctrines and practices, or at least there exists pre-enlightenment interpretation of koranic scripture that support such doctrines and practices.

in a lesser way, and on a lesser scale, the wts too is pre-enlightenment in a sense.

flipper

No, it's beyond reform

94

New JW video, song and dance

by Listener in

the current jws do not cease to amaze.

here's their latest video on youtube and straight from bethel.. there is a lot of work involved in this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwou6e5vwbo .

flipper

Talk about " false advertising " ! Sheesh ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

17

JWs versus Scientology

by millie210 in

i have been discussing scientology with a friend who is reading dianetics by l. ron hubbard.. both groups are considered cults by many.. both have a policy of shunning members who leave.. so in your opinion, what are the similarities you find between them?.

what are the differences?.

is one group "worse"?.

flipper

MILLIE- I think both groups are really bad in their mind control techniques they use on their members. It's been mentioned that the Scientologists are like Jehovah's Witnesses on steroids. Scientology's leader has approved of physical violence towards members - HE David Miscavige has committed physical violence towards his own followers. They keep secret records about Scientology members personal lives, i.e. Tom Cruise, John Travolta and others and use slave labor within their ranks to recruit others. They are more visible in their abuse of members.

Jehovah's Witnesses are more subtle in WT Society abuse towards members but JUST as dangerous. Child abuse , suicides, people dying from not receiving blood transfusions , shunning of relatives and friends due to not attending meetings or agreeing with beliefs. Both cults are extremely dangerous . And both cults do illegal and criminal activities

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

flipper

SCENIC VIEWER - Good information you bring out from the elders manual. The fact that the WT Society would use the expression regarding child molesters in the congregation, " the sin may involve past child abuse , and this would LIKELY disqualify him for MANY YEARS " indicates definitely that a JW child molester MAY be able to serve as an elder if enough years went by. Too bad WT leaders cannot put in there that being a child molester would ALWAYS FOREVER disqualify a JW man from being an elder again. But then they'd have to expose any higher ups, C.O.'s D.O.'s or GB members who serve right now who may have committed child abuse in the past. Poor them. Notice the sarcasm

25

Your first time on this forum. What were your thoughts and feelings?

by stuckinarut2 in

hey all,.

i was just thinking back to the first time i found this awesome forum...years before i eveni joined up and starting posting myself.. i was so encouraged and happy to see that i was not alone!

i was not the only one who was observing the org, and all of its aspects and thinking "seriously?

flipper

STUCKINARUT- Good thread , thanks for posting it. Yeah- I too felt really a sense of comfort and relief once I joined the board and started chiming in to see that many here had experienced injustices like I did as a Witness and had similar treatment.

At first I had been out about three and a half years when my wife Mrs. Flipper came on here and she invited me to look into the board. I was reluctant at first as I was thoroughly DONE with everything JW and didn't want to get involved. But once I got on board here I found friends that have become dear to me on this board and I've learned so much that I didn't know at first about TTATT . So it's been a great experience and I enjoy helping others to move on in life after the JW experience just like others have assisted me ! It's a " pay it forward " thing I truly believe

97

Just ask simple questions and make street witnesses move along

by OnTheWayOut in

you don't have to know much to talk to jw's and show them they don't want to really discuss the matters.they consider a discussion on the matter they are pushing to be "confrontational.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfw_txpmsj8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lqtadagucq.

flipper

I would like to add a further thought to this thread that seems to be getting more interesting by the minute. I feel that if this cameraman had gone somewhere to film a known pedophile being sent out into field service accompanied by elders - THAT kind of you tube might accomplish more good. At least in exposing how unjust and dangerous the WT organization is in KNOWINGLY sending out known sex offenders to peoples homes thus putting minor children in danger.

I agree with On The Way Out - although I don't endorse the bullying aspect of the cameraman I do believe it does show how uninformed these young JW's were and how their minds are thoroughly indoctrinated with only ONE thought pattern stuck into their heads - WT thought patterns. The you tube does show how mind controlled and indoctrinated these young folks are. Therein lies the danger of not being able to think outside of " black and white " concepts that perhaps YES maybe the cameraman had valid points.

Someone else here, I believe Sparrowdown made a good point that Witnesses " turn up at strangers doors uninvited " which personally I consider rude - so if a JW comes to MY door they are going to be questioned about their beliefs as I feel I have the right to have them hear ME about my thoughts as my thoughts ARE as important as them coming to my door. It's as important for THEM to listen to me as they feel it is for ME to listen to them !

I treat street Witnesses in the same way. Outlaw made a very good point that if JW's are " setting up shop in a public area " then people are also going to voice their opinions in a very public way. We have an older JW here who stands in our town at the Post Office with his WT rack of magazines, etc. He doesn't say much - just stands there. I have approached him before with WT child abuse lawsuit news printouts and placed them with him- his response ? He refuses to believe what I'm telling him . He makes excuses that the elders in congregations are handling child abuse correctly and that just by disfellowshipping child molesters it settles the problem. This JW has even admitted to me that he has shunned his own DFed son for 30 years now and it's like he brags about it as a good thing.

Here's the deal. Yes perhaps the camera man came off somewhat rude- but in order to expose the WT Society or reveal to these young people different information the camera man had to say what he did . He rubbed it in wrongly by accusing the young JW's of not helping the homeless man - so the cameraman got off track in trying to expose these JW's. But I believe whether there was a camera filming it or not filming it - the young JW's answers would have been the same. They STILL would not have been able to explain their beliefs.

This is the world we live in now. Everybody has a cell phone with a camera on it. So anybody can be filmed doing anything these days. Wacking off in the park, taking a crap, we have to accept it. Nothing we can do about it. I believe that JW's SHOULD be informed about how their organization are doing criminal acts and it's a hard truth- but somebody needs to tell it. I think there are ways we can tell it to them without appearing superior to them and still leaving their dignity intact. So I understand Exwhyzees points to a point. But JW's still need to be informed as 99 % of them know absolutely nothing about child abuse crises going on in their organization. Kind of how I see this situation

16

Really don't feel like a JW anymore

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

it has been a good 8 years away from my area, a good 10 years + since i was regularly at meetings.

a good 12 years since i was hesitantly active.. it is a slow process but it does happen.

i now feel no connection to the belief system beyond memories.

flipper

SNARE- Very good thread. I totally agree with what you stated there. My feelings completely after being out over 11 years myself. In fact I feel the WT Society and Jehovah's Witness organization looks crazier and weirder the longer we are away from it. Once we got away from the " indoctrination " meetings without that mental crap being spoon fed into our heads- life really begins again. We start to breathe and our minds open up to new adventures in life. It's a REAL blessing to be away from the JW cult indeed

30

Clever/snappy comeback for "you're an apostate"

by Dagney in

jw
friends

i'm looking for some clever comebacks.

i really don't care that i am an apostate, but would like to deliver a quick comeback or two to perhaps make the other person think.

any suggestions most welcome.

flipper

If someone says that " you're an apostate " - just ask them - " what's an apostate " ? Let THEM explain it . Then tell them that you've never deviated from the REAL truth in life and you are as true a human being now more than you ever were. My 2 cents. Peace out, mr. Flipper

13

Thinking about thinking and upbringing

by ballistic in

jw
friends

i was thinking about being "brought up in the truth" as opposed to joining.. as a child's brain develops, it builds connections based on what it is taught.

these connections are inseparable from the person in that our thoughts and memories actually become part of our personality (who we are).. a very simple example, might be being taught *not to do something* because it "displeases jehovah".

the understanding of right and wrong is then set in the child's mind and built upon.. there are several points of thought i have about this fact.

flipper

BALLISTIC- VERY interesting thread. Thanks for creating it. I was born-in to a JW family as my parents had been JW's 8 years before I was born. I exited finally at age 44 back in 2003 . It took awhile for some of the JW indoctrination to wear off and leave me - however after 11 years I can confidently say I've come a long way towards being mostly free of it. I don't know if we EVER lose the indoctrination totally- I do think it's possible- but it takes a conscious effort in re-programming our neurotransmitters in our brains with other information pumping through those brain neurons to reprogram our minds to think more open mindedly and in shades of gray - not black and white - and to restore our critical thinking ability which the WT Society stole from our minds. Once we get away from the WT indoctrination meetings our minds can breathe again and regain our authentic thought processes we were born with - especially if we work hard to re-program our minds in a different way.

I also believe that we inherit DNA from our parents which helps us to form our OWN authentic personality whether we were raised JW's from birth- or not. For instance my JW mom who is 87 years old is a very reasonable person, open minded , kind, and will listen to what I say about the WT Society in spite of her being a JW for 64 years. But there was part of her even while active as a JW that NEVER gave up all of her mind to the JW organization. She kept some of her own born with mind . I took after my mom and have a similar independent thought process that the JW cult NEVER totally stole from me in spite of years of indoctrination. I think it's hardwired in some of our DNA to be more independent as opposed to being dependent or a pushover. My 89 year old dad however is a hardcore JW elder still after 64 years and never questions the WT organization's views. And it could very well be that he was that way as a boy before becoming a JW.

Point I'm making long story short is I think we each have the potential for our born in authentic personality to shine , but after having it temporarily stolen from the WT Society we need to WORK to get it back, it takes effort. And putting forth effort to think on our own was not encouraged for us as JW's. So after all is said and done it's up to us to find our true selves