on another thread, ak-jeff shared an interesting perspective........ "i don't know is my belief.. .
i care.
but typically, i get no answers when i ask.
So, do you put the god of the bible on the same level as the Invisible Pink Unicorn on Pluto?
Who knows! You can't rule them out now can you!
Well at least the god of the Bible, real or not, has affected the beliefs and actions of people far more than the Pink Unicorn. Interestingly, the Gnostics (not all but many) thought the God of the bible was one messed up god - jealous and angry. The sought to know his father.
on another thread, ak-jeff shared an interesting perspective........ "i don't know is my belief.. .
i care.
but typically, i get no answers when i ask.
Doubting Bro,
I just finished reading the Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels. A wonderful book describing competing beliefs among the orthodox and gnostics. She describes how many of the beliefs of the "orthodox" (the winner got to call themselves orthodox) religion is connected to their need for authority, to explain persecution and to develop one channel to god -all to the detriment of the individual.
On the other hand, for the majority of a gnostics life was a personal journey for knowledge, enlightenment and a personal relationship with God. This personal path conflicted with the "orthodox" path. Obviously, the "orthodox" path won and it is just in the 20th century that some of the early christain debate is now being made available with the translation and examination of the Nag Hammadi Library.
Like you, I do know that most, if not all, of organized religion is not God's channel of communication- certainly not the WTS. The gnostic quest was encouraging to me. Your goal to treat others in good ways to the best of your ability is admirable. I try my best to do the same. It seems though, that the individuals who willingly treat those Witnesses who are desperately in need of emotional and physical help are those who leave the WTS.
Maybe I have too high of an opinion of what we try to do, but I feel that the ones who remain in positions of responsibility will not and do not really care enough to take real action to assist needy Witnesses. They are focused on giving their talks and pleasing men and not doing the work of the Christ. I don't know if the Christ was just a man or the son of God, but all writings (bible and otherwise) seems to suggest that he looked after those who needed to be looked after.
Best.
Zarco
on another thread, ak-jeff shared an interesting perspective........ "i don't know is my belief.. .
i care.
but typically, i get no answers when i ask.
On another thread, AK-Jeff shared an interesting perspective.......
"I don't know is my belief.
I care. But typically, I get no answers when I ask. I am not an unbeliever. I just keep looking to find how I can support being one. Yet all the believers just clam up and cover their ears as if I am blaspheming God. It is God I seek if he is to be found. Who wouldn't? Why does he want to make it a game of hide and seek? He is hiding - I am tired of seeking when he seems to be both everywhere and nowhere at the same time."
I shared his thought with a few current (safe) Witnesses. They said that is exactly how they feel. What about you?
Zarco
it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.
the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?
) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.
Jeff,
Very well said. It is indeed so very hard. Why is it so difficult? With open minds maybe we shall find. A belief in a creator is all that remains. All else is in the category of "I dont know".
Zarco
during a recent special day assembly program, ted said that woman in a physically abusive marriage should submit to her husband so that eventually her husbands may respond to their submission and come to worship god.
my family was completely shocked.
can you imagine the culpability and responsibility of this man who claims to speak for the christ to encourage women to get beat up as way to encourage their abusive husbands to come into the truth.
During a recent Special Day Assembly Program, Ted said that woman in a physically abusive marriage should submit to her husband so that eventually her husbands may respond to their submission and come to worship god. My family was completely shocked. Can you imagine the culpability and responsibility of this man who claims to speak for the Christ to encourage women to get beat up as way to encourage their abusive husbands to come into the truth. Is this what Christ would have encouraged? In the same talk while promoting the use of the Bible he told the audience that we should be like the Boreans and examine what is said from the platform, not to question but to confirm what is said. The arrogance of this man is beyond comprehension as he has the audacity to change the Bible’s message to suit his purposes. As usual he hid from the brotherhood before, during the lunch break and after the Assembly Day. Jesus, Paul and others would have been with the brotherhood to encourage and engage, not to hide away. This man is evil or an idiot. Christ like – not a chance. Zarco
i just heard this - anyone else?
i was curious as to the reason people were given for this.
and i can't help but think of those that will be trying to get a job in this economy, with few skills and probably no college education.
Yes an additional round of "layoffs" is going on. Many of those being assigned to the field have close to 30 years at Bethel. It is rumored that two members of the writing staff are going out as special pioneers. Most of those with significant years are given special pioneer status whereby they receive health care and a monthly stipend. Many of the layoffs occurred this past week. Of course the spin is "we are so close to the time of the end that we need all out in the field" and "many congregations need the experienced ones from Bethel to help prepare for persecution".
Zarco
yes, as far as jehovahs witnesses are concerned, apostates are evil, wicked, faithless liars.. i was wanting to ask - assuming most if not all who come here are in the jw category of apostate, how do you feel about the fact that you are portrayed in such a light by the org?.
i will be the first to admit - i always thought that those who criticized the org were untruthful or exaggerating.
its not until now i have considered what you guys have to say and how you feel that i realize that what you have to say is all truthful (tinged with a bit of anger perhaps).. personally i think its verging on character assassination.
Scotsman,
I try to live by Christain principles. We do our best to provide relief to the poor and any others that we have the capacity to help. I have tried to express my doubts in kind yet direct ways and have been rejected by the organization. The organization does not speak the truth. We are the child with the audacity to say the "emperor has no clothes".
You will pick up some anger on this site, the anger comes from being attacked by what is supposed to be Christ's brothers, but by their fruits they obviously are brothers of someone other than Christ. In no particular order the false teachings are:
Denigration of Christ - demoting his role as the redeemer of mankind
JW Baptism - see AuldSoul comments on the matter
Adding to the Bible - see oompa posts on addition of Jehovah into New World Translation where it should not be added
Teaching the the end of the world is - just pick a year it is likely the WTBS has predicted that the end would come in that year
1440,000 - yeah right well over 144,000 were followers of Christ in the first and second centuries
Blood Transfusions -
Child Abuse - they require two witnesses to wrongdoing before they act - how often are there two witnesses to child abuse
Lack of love - shunning policies, not looking after the poor and those unable to care for themselves
It is late so I will stop. But we are not liars or henchmen, just honest hearted ones searching for truth
you heretics, you think you speak the truth, yet you lie and take advantage of those in need!
i know your ways, aiming for people that can't even read.
you crazed hypocrites!
We are not apostates as we stand for truth. Or at least the search for truth. The WTBS has never had the truth.
Why not follow what your Lord and Master said " sell all of your belongings and give to the poor"? Sell all WT property and distribute to those in need. Then if you are one of Christ's Brothers walk amoung men and preach a message of truth rather than cloister yourselves in your tower.
Sincerly,
Zarco
okay, so it should be very soon when the theme for the 2008 convention will be made public.
what do you think the them will be?
I agree with OntheWayOut -
They are trying to go mainstream. Even the Mormans went mainstream and are now the fastest growing religion (at least in US). They will focus on Christ and his teachings.
Zarco
