Mondo1

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Posts by Mondo1

• 
  239

  Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

  by Hellrider in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.

  ...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.

  i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.

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  Mondo1

  ellderwho,

  Will you stop acting so immature please?
• 
  239

  Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

  by Hellrider in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.

  ...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.

  i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mondo1

  I could only speculate... so why bother? I simply know that eternity is without end.
• 
  239

  Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

  by Hellrider in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.

  ...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.

  i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mondo1

  Sure. He absolutely now possesses it.
• 
  239

  Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

  by Hellrider in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.

  ...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.

  i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mondo1

  I guess that depends on how you wish to define nature, but it is not how I define it and that does not fit the Trinitarian sense.
• 
  239

  Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

  by Hellrider in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.

  ...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.

  i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mondo1

  The problem with calling him God ontologically is that the Bible is clear in that the deity Christ possessed is based upon the Father choosing for him to possess it. (Col. 1:19; 2:9) One might say that he is ontologically a god because of the Father giving him his deity, but not God. The problem is also that "God" is used as a quazi-proper name in Scripture, and when it is used in such a way it describes the Father, the one true (alhqinos) God, which Jesus is not.
• 
  239

  Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

  by Hellrider in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.

  ...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.

  i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mondo1

  His person. His consciousness. His life. This is what came down. The means of existence within which this existed changed.
• 
  239

  Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

  by Hellrider in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.

  ...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.

  i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mondo1

  Well let me first say that no, I do not agree that Isaiah saw Christ on the throne. I will not rule it out, for it is possible that Christ mediated that event as God's agent, but Scripture does not explicitly tell us that.

  For Phil. 2:6-7, he was in the form of God as the Logos. He was God's agent, he appeared as God in representation of him. As Jewish tradition tells us, a man's agent is as himself. So for Jesus, as the Logos, to appear, would be as God appearing, legally, though not physically God. He gave up that position though, taking for himself the position of a servant, and coming to be as a man.

  The Bible is very clear in that what Christ had he "emptied himself" of, so no I do not believe he had a dual nature. Not in the Trinitarian sense of it anyway.

  Mondo
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

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  Mondo1

  What I simply said was that to call Jesus the "source" of creation would contradict what the Bible teaches of his role. The title of "creator" is never assigned to Jesus, but if we were to give it to him, it would be necessary to do so only in understanding the role he took, which was secondary, with the Father the source and originator of all.

  Mondo
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mondo1

  If you want to call "silly" a demonstration of the absurdity of your argument, by all means. You want to arbitrarily decide when it refers to God and when it doesn't. It doesn't fly.
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Mondo1

  Kenneson,

  The reason that it would contradict "source" in Rev 3:14 is because God the Father is always seen as the source, while the son is only seen as the intermediate agent. That is what is in view within all of those texts. So it would be a contradiction.