BurnTheShips

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Posts by BurnTheShips

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  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

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  BurnTheShips

  Aha, well how do you feel about Islam being the fastest growing religion? If the number of Muslims ever outnumber Christians, will you be switching religions?

  You just don't get it do you? I clearly said that numbers have no bearing.

  I don't deny it. I say we don't know.

  But you have denied it! Repeatedly! Recently! Over and over again! Do you want me to link you your posts and threads here at JWD? Now that there is a logical problem you can't solve you change your tune. That is either intellectually dishonest on your part, or you have just now changed your mind and are no longer atheist but agnostic.

  The dials argument- what about the multiverse theory? With many universes, it makes sense that some (even one) would get it right (for life on earth only, it seems).

  Produce one shred, one miserable pitiful scrap of empirical evidence that there are Universes other than our own. Go ahead. I DARE YOU. Otherwise you are deluded if you believe that.

  You assume our universe is the only one.

  You appear to assume our Universe is not. In the light of the evidence, how could you possibly do that? By your own standards, you are deluded.

  The rational answer is nobody knows, stop acting as if you do.

  Please don't tell me how to act, I got enough of that as a JW.

  Burn
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  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  BurnTheShips

  If by theism, you're referring to knowledge and intellectual and moral acceptance of the existence of an all-knowing and all-powerful entity with personality, as described in the Judeo-Christian Bible or the Qur'an, I can find no reason to subscribe to it.

  You are confused. I am not referring to anything other than the term. I am referring to theism. I am not speaking of the Bible or the Quran here. Look the word up if you want to discuss it. Here I will save you the trouble.

  If that deity were real, His presence would universally affect our experience, without reliance on ancient texts.

  I believe it does.

  It is the concept of God as a unique entity, all-powerful and all-knowing, with personality that I have moral and intellectual problems with.

  Well, those are your problems Nvrgnbk, not mine - and you have yet to demonstrate whether those problems preclude the existence of a Creator. Maybe we could discuss in another thread?

  Your unwillingness to define this God you're so fervently attempting to produce suggests to me that you might not believe either, Burn .

  I believe.

  Once again, it seems you want to suggest that there is a something .

  That does nothing for me.

  That is not the point. The evidence suggests there is a something. Whether it "does anything for you" has no bearing in this context.

  Respectfully, (I do respect you I hope I have not been to caustic).

  Burn.
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  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Posting a graph of the number of Christians in the world in the other thread must have just been a response to someone who said Christians weren't the majority, and not something to back up Christian beliefs. I hope so anyway.

  It was. There weren't always that many Christians you know.

  You said our universe was caused, then the question came up of whether that cause was natural or supernatural. The answer is nobody knows. That's the honest answer. But you claim you do know, and more than that, you claim to know which specific supernatural cause it was (Yahweh) and I presume you also claim to know what Yahweh wants of us and what his plans are.

  Without getting into who the Deity is and what its attributes are; to deny a theist explanation for the original Cause puts us in a quandary. For decades scientists have noticed that several of the basic physical constants of the Universe must fall within very narrow limits if there is to be the life. For instance, if the force of gravity were even a little bit more powerful, all stars would be blue giants (and hence unable to support an earth-like planet). If gravity were just a bit weaker, all stars would be red dwarfs. Either way, you would not be here to ask these questions. Ditto for for the weak and strong nuclear forces. A little stronger or weaker or with slightly different properties life, at least our sort of life (which is the only we know exists), could not have developed. Ditto for electromagnetism. There is also the "flatness problem". The existence of life also seems to depend very delicately upon the rate at which the universe is expanding. It has been observed that the rate of expansion of the Universe is calibrated to an incredibly precise degree: just slighly slower, and the Universe would have recollapsed, just slighly faster and we would have no stars, galaxies and planetary systems. There are a large number of "dials", and all have to be calibrated to within a very narrow range for us to even be here debating the issue.

  Is it rational to believe that? No. There's no way you can know.

  How do you know 2+2 is always 4? Could it be 5 sometimes?

  It should go like this:

  1. Everything that has a beginning has a NATURAL cause.

  2. Our universe began.

  3. Therefore, our universe had a NATURAL cause.

  If you can show one thing within our universe with a supernatural cause, then your argument holds weight.

  You contradict yourself. The Universe is the "Natural". The "Natural" began with the Universe. There was no "Natural" before the Universe. If all natural things had a natural source, then the Universe would be infinite, because there would be an infinite progression of cause and effect back in time. Nearly all of the scientific data confirms that the universe had a beginning, so you put yourself add odds with your Deity.

  Burn
• 
  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  BurnTheShips

  So, Burn , tell us more about your deity.

  A diversion. I am merely asserting here that Theism as a belief (as has been posted on this forum ad nauseum) is neither unrational, ridiculous, delusional or closeminded. To say that it is, in the face of the evidence, is unrational, ridiculous, delusional and closeminded. You can't defeat theism on rational grounds, therefore you (or many of you, I have no quarrel with those that are respectful atheists) must resort to ridicule. Somehow I remember a lot of JWs resorting to ridicule back when I was in the Tower.

  Nvrgnbk, do you agree that Theism is a rational, and not a ridiculous, belief?

  Burn.
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  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  BurnTheShips

  I'd like to encourage all of you who go through the pain of trying to argue with creationists / theists that it is making a difference.

  I hope we all are, there is plenty of pain to go around.

  I notice that I left several questions that were not addressed upthread that demonstrate the reasonableness of theism. Perhaps in your proselytizational zeal you can try to engage them rather than merely cheerlead?

  Perhaps there are more atheists on JWD or perhaps not-- but that is not the point, is it?

  Burn.
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  20

  Who Runs Evolution?

  by Satanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  answer: females do ;) heheh.

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  BurnTheShips

  I would say God does.
  
  Burn
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  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Is that cause natural or supernatural?

  Why don't you tell me?

  What evidence would satisfy me? Enough empirical evidence for it to be no longer supernatural.

  From the way you are saying it, it sounds like your disbelief in the supernatural is an a priori assertion that no a posteriori empirical evidence could ever deny, only confirm. IOW, it is faith.

  Here is a side question for you Caedes:

  From your statement it seems that you need empirical evidence to rationally believe in something. Would you say that is only true of God?

  Burn
• 
  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  BurnTheShips

  You speak of the "ultimate being". Why not call she/he/it Thor as it makes no difference to the issue. What you lack, and have not even attempted to provide, is any evidence for your "ultimate being" actually existing.

  Look around you. Look inside you. Not enough? What evidence would possibly satisfy you?

  Are you prepared to do this? Why do you believe in an "Ultimate" being?

  There are many reasons, faith not the least but here is a common one I suspect you are familiar with:

  1.) Everything which begins to exist requires a cause.
  2.) The universe began to exist.
  3.) Therefore, the universe requires a cause.

  I call that cause "God".

  Burn
• 
  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  BurnTheShips

  That's a matter of FAITH.

  Indeed,

  Burn.
• 
  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  BurnTheShips

  You've been rather evasive about the nature and identity of that entity, by the way.

  That is only because in this thread I have only been trying to argue that such an entity merely exists. There is little point in trying to prove the nature and identity of the tooth fairy, it would be a waste of time.

  Burn