before i created an account here on jwd, i was in a place where i really didn't care about the jw religion any more.
i didn't know or care to know about any of the "scandals".
i'd heard about the un/ngo issue and it raised my eyebrows.
Daystar, I'm with you. I refuse to rent out space in my brain to the JW subject except when I feel like it, which is less and less as time goes on.
But I think that we must remember the time when the little light bulb went on over our head. We needed to vent and be supported. I still feel like I owe that to others as they need it. This forum must be like nirvana to many and rightly so.
Wish I could be at the Apostafest! I love that name! Would love to have bumper sticker or T-shirt.
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
Have not heard from Jourles in awhile. I know Jourles and respect his opinion. How you doing?
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
Here, here, Cheezy ( As in Mel-cheezy-dik? The king/priest right?) You said a mouthful. Now go brush your pearly whites.
I don't think we'll have to worry about getting the word out after one good, pit bull, NY Jew lawyer gets his teeth into the seat of the Watchtowers britches.
As for you, New Zealand Steve, no offense but you need to take a grumpy pill. Why so negative? Time will reveal the scope of this. I don't agree with your negative take but at least we can disagree without getting called before a judicial committee, right?
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
1. The bigger the all caps font being used the louder and madder the writer is.
2. The anger felt from being disappointed is proportionate to the immaturity of the individual.
3. Chill, brothers and sisters. Its all good.
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
I guess it's to be expected that many who were wanting instant gratification are disappointed. But to claim that this development is meaningless is flat wrong. It IS big. As you will find out as time goes on
Hello? Ever heard of the Mormon Church reversing itself on polygamy due to secular laws?
Have you heard about the Catlicks troubles over sex abuse by priests?
I remember when disfellowshipping announcements included the specific reason, i.e., adultery, fornication, etc. The WT gave all kinds of self righteous, so-called 'scriptural' backing for this practice. But when they started getting sucessfully sued for slander they dropped it like a hot potato. They changed it to a blanket "conduct unbecoming a Christian" for a while and when that still didn't stop the suits, they dropped that too.
Two angles here
1. Huge monetary damages and 2. Many JW's WILL take a hard look at the faithful and discreet slave. Many are on the edge anyway. The straw indeed.
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
Well, there it is. Good stuff Maynard. Haven't had a chance to digest it yet but it smells close enough to BIG to satisfy me.
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
Hey Doodle,
I've thought about it and I think I like NEWS BIG better than BIG NEWS or even NEWS BIG NEWS or BIG NEWS BIG.
Thanks for running it by me.
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
Seeker4, I have a theory as to why all us chickens have swarmed around this particular juicy bug.
In a nutshell, it's because it alludes to the potential (choose one) DOWNFALL, SERIOUS IMPEACHMENT, MORTAL BLOW, HUGE EMBARASSMENT, EXPOSED HYPOCRISY of an Organization that smugly nicknames itself "The Truth" and then has the unbelievable hubris to change it when it suits them. This is the bug I have been salivating over for more than 20 years.
A gotcha about some mundane doctrinal/policy reversal, etc. WILL BE A DISAPPOINTMENT. We must be patient. Brooklyn wasn't built in a day. We certainly don't want to start pecking each other bloody if we're disappointed.
I was a third generation JW. Both sets of my grandparents were International Bible Students, colpourters and you name it. My aunt and uncle pioneered around the midwest in the late 30's with a young man named Ted Jaracz. Uncles and cousins went to prison over the draft. Several relatives, including my wife and Grandmother who risked death by refusing blood.
When I was born in 1945, my Dad was still recovering from a mob beating he received in Bakersfield Calif while standing on the street with the Watchtower mag. My loving family encouraged me to be a high school drop out (the end was near anyway in 1962) Eventually, I held all the jobs from Congregation servant to, finally, elder. It was as an elder serving on Judicial committees for several years that I began to be bothered by all the sexual behaviour 'rules' being handed down by a bunch of old batchelor geezers in Brooklyn. We had a lot of young married couples in our congregation. They began to tearfully approach the elders to 'confess' that they had engaged in oral sex. We were obligated to discuss these intimate matters with them and 'counsel' them because the Society had opened this can of worms. We didn't quite get it either. One couple in particular just couldn't stop munching on each other and they kept approaching us to confess. I thought we were going to have to disfellowship somebody for eating pussy!...and then...AND THEN.... after approx. 3 years of this... the WT REVERSED itself.! This was just the begining of the end for me. I was DF'd in 1981 or 82. Can't remember because I wasn't there! When "Crisis of Conscience" came out, I inhaled it.
I could go on but I will cut to the point. In 1983 my sister and I attended the famous meeting in Alabama at Peter Gregersons cabin on a lake. Ray Franz was there, Ron Frye, Dan Dykstra and many other good people that I will never forget. By the midway point of the meeting it was decided to form Biblical Research and Commentary International. By the end of the meeting I was one of those elected to be on the board of directors. By the time I had returned home to California and digested this intense weekend I realized I had to resign and I did. Why? Because I was not ready to jump from one religous trainwreck based on a belief in Jesus Christ to another without thinking about it. I decided I needed more time to find an answer to the BIG questions. It was enough for me to realize that the WT Society was a fraud. The harm it had done to really good people was beyond the pale.
I wasn't looking for a new 'come to Jesus' angle. I simply wanted the Watchtower to be exposed and discredited. I STILL DO.
I have no problem with my xjw brothers and sisters who are devout Christians. I love everyone of you.
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
Enigma, I think that an adult who consciously chooses to embrace a belief that includes such serious, life and death, doctrines (see the following list) must deal with the consequences if it blows up in their face. I'm not sure where you find fault with my observation. I, too, have beloved, good hearted family members who have given their entire life to the Org. I also know a lot of "Watchtower Nazis" whose ugly personality traits found a snug home in the JW life.
This is not kids stuff, I have had hands on experiences with all the following and I can tell you it is a very grave responsibility to be a part of them.
Refuse blood trans, for oneself, loved one or child, even if death is result.
Spend years in prison to comply with WT doctrine (military draft, etc,)
Refuse to scripturally recognize a divorce for a sister whose husband is involved in a homosexual relationship. (This was changed due to "new light" but not until many lives were severely damaged. I know, I used to be an 'enforcer' on the judicial committee)
Discourage youth from seeking higher education.
Reprimanding and/or disfellowshipping (a 'death sentence') people with serious mental illness.
Threaten judicial action against someone who wants to report child sex abuse to the authorities.(I reported the 20 yr old elders asshole nephew that tried to seduce my 12 yr. old daughter)
The one thing I always avoided was the Memorial Day cemetary operations, approaching people at the graves of their loved ones to see if we could sell them a bottle of WT snake oil. Yuccch!
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
Several have mentioned their concern and empathy for aged JW family members who might be badly hurt if, indeed, the WTB&TS is truly discredited. I would just like to remind everyone that JW's bread and butter mission has always been to destroy the faith of others. This has been done by, among other things, walking up to their doors on Sunday morning and trying to engage them in dialogue that has the ultimate goal of undermining, in many cases, their deepest religous/spiritual beliefs.
BOTTOM LINE: If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
