Posts by careful

26

Things Rutherford got wrong that Fred Franz had to clear up

by slimboyfat in

i was interested by the suggestion in a recent discussion that rutherford was in some way preferable to fred franz, because i’ve not come across this view before.

it made me rethink my assumptions and try to work out why i hold the opposite view and prefer fred franz to rutherford.

i haven’t done any additional research, so i’m only drawing on what i can remember off the top of my head, but i thought i’d list a few things where i reckon fred franz’s approach was preferable to rutherford.

careful

I’ve read that it was Gene Smalley who came up with the blood ban and maintained it over the decades.

Wasn't blood transfusion banned back in the 1950s? Was Smalley at Bethel then? Was he even an adult then? Since when have underlings set policy/doctrine? The organizational model has, since JFR, always been from the top down, from the anointed rulers to the non-anointed other sheep flunkies, not any other way. What uninformed source were you reading?

Smalley has, however, been the point man in defending the issue, apparently supposing that Jehovah would never have guided his people into such an egregious doctrinal/practical error that has caused the death of so many.

Franz was preferable to Rutherford

Isn't that a bit like preferring simple imprisonment over imprisonment with daily floggings?

3

Our (JW) genetic mutation

by Jalisco in

the spiritual dna of our faith was "protestant" for over 100 years, until 1985, after which it changed to a catholic sense.

for example, for decades we were presented with the example of the bereans who "were more noble-minded than those of thessalonica" because they went to see in the scriptures if what paul preached to them was really like that.

and then a second to the bereans?

careful

when divisions on matters of doctrine and policy begin to take hold among a faith group it can become chronic, debilitating, and exhausting for all involved.

Precisely why the GB will never give up their absolute control.

15

The Big Secret

by finishedmystery in

when the gb brought a formal end to all the type/antitypes in so many ways it could be said that they brought the religion to an end.

the other sheep/anointed teaching that leads to a two class religion was originally based on two antitypes--the jehu/jehonadab relationship and something about the cities of refuge.

in that 2014 annual meeting talk david splane even specifically stated that the cities of refuge has no antitype.

careful

I wouldn’t expect too much deep thinking from Dubs. It’s an organization where grown men needed permission to grow a beard.
DD

Especially given the fact that God put facial hair on male humans for a reason—and it wasn't to save it off!!!

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh. In other words, the clean shaven policy was at odds with Jehovah's purpose all along. Indeed, the clean shaven cultures in antiquity were the Egyptians and the Romans, enemies to Israel. These facts, of course, have long been missed by GB I and GB II. Again, duhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

23

3 Changes The Watchtower Made on Babylon The Great in the Last 6 Months

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/vpws6ncqpla?si=dqnf7-hupfr4pdta.

for decades, jehovah’s witnesses have been banging on about babylon the great—the so-called world empire of false religion—being on the brink of collapse.

any day now, they assured us, churches would empty out, priests would be left twiddling their thumbs, and humanity would collectively bin organised religion.

careful

Supposedly figuring out biblical prophecy ahead of time? YAWN.

99

What the new JW light position really is 👍

by ElderBerry in

i’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.

as my fellow elders are.

we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.

careful

ElderBerry, do any of your fellow elders know you are PIMA?

5

WA bill mandating clergy report abuse clears Senate floor

by blondie in

jw
friends

https://columbiabasinherald.com/news/2025/mar/24/wa-bill-mandating-clergy-report-abuse-clears-senate-floor/ .

careful

Religious groups, not just JWs, but Catholics, Orthodox Jews, Mormons, and various Protestant ones, would soon challenge such a new law, if the bill passes, on the basis of the long-established clergy-penitent privilege. This is what happened in Montana and why the WTS won. State legislatures and other law-making bodies can pass all the laws they want, but once they're challenged in court, it's up to the courts to decide how the legal conflict between two opposing principles would be handled.

The only way all this can be ultimately settled in the USA is for SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) to take up the matter. Given the current make up of SCOTUS, full of conservatives as it is, such a change from the status quo does not look promising. From all indications they would simply declare the Washington law invalid upon the basis of the clergy-penitent privilege enshrined in federal jurisprudence.

I've made this point before in similar threads. You can get all excited about these gestures politicians make to please their constituents, but it's the courts that matter. There is a much better chance of change on this issue in Westernized countries outside of the USA.

19

The Share of Religious Americans will continue to decline- New York Times. Why? New Pew Study

by Balaamsass2 in

locally, in northern california i have seen/heard a drop in jw and mainstream church attendance especially in person attendance.

(exception: a new creepy local new-age charismatic/pentecostal group: "bethel church" 11,000 and growing mega church(kundalini yoga/sex combined with prosperity gospel, trumpism, guns, rock music, dancing, glitter, speaking in tongues, and faith healing).. for me this paragraph sums it up regarding jehovah's witnesses: " ...smith described organized religion to me as having become a “polluted” idea in the american mainstream, because of the publicity around sex abuse scandals and financial malfeasance in many different faiths in the ’80s and ’90s as millennials came of age.

“the scandals violated most of the virtues believed to make religion good,” smith wrote.

careful

Vidiot:

careful - “…The one place it has been increasing is in the extreme right wing of evangelical Protestants, Trump supporters and all…”
Yeah, they finally (re)discovered a “version” of Christianity that lets them be assholes again.

21

What's with the attack (counsel) on husbands with no corresponding article for wives?

by Rattigan350 in

what's with the attack (counsel) on husbands with no corresponding article for wives on the jan 2025 w that is being studied today?.

is there a point to that?.

careful

There is a “bigger play” at work here.
the article from this weekend, after a quick skim, was designed to negate those two ‘policies’ with weasel language about respecting you wife and not demeaning her sexually etc etc.
net net, “official” policy is that any sex is good sex, they stay out of it, should anyone ask. Unofficially, but what will be referenced by all elders, is the article fromthis past weekend where they will refer to demeaning sex and tie that to oral and anal.

Justaguy, you seem to have hit the nail on the head.

99

What the new JW light position really is 👍

by ElderBerry in

i’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.

as my fellow elders are.

we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.

careful

Wow, what a testimony! Thanks for the share. Quite revealing.

That said, I must ask something based on this:

You could turn up to any meeting with zero preparation and give any item. It’s all done for you there is no thinking required anymore.

Is this supposed to be some kind of virtue? How does that jibe with the advice at Heb. 5:14?

"Solid food belongs to mature people, those who have .. have had their perceptive powers trained to distinguish right from wrong." The implication here seems to mean individual thinking, not some "parrot what we've laid out here."

Then there are all those proverbs that encourage one to seek out wisdom personally, obviously in the context of studying, and Ezra's example of studying the Law himself in order to teach his fellow Jews? (7:10)

I'm not finding fault with you. Rather I'm hoping to get you question how you personally are measuring up—or not—to the scriptural requirements of your position. The GB and their ever-obedient underlings/devotees have designed a system of exterior efficiency. Is this all you want, "It’s all done for you; there is no thinking required anymore"?

Is that what Jehovah wants, brainless robots/parrots?

19

The Share of Religious Americans will continue to decline- New York Times. Why? New Pew Study

by Balaamsass2 in

locally, in northern california i have seen/heard a drop in jw and mainstream church attendance especially in person attendance.

(exception: a new creepy local new-age charismatic/pentecostal group: "bethel church" 11,000 and growing mega church(kundalini yoga/sex combined with prosperity gospel, trumpism, guns, rock music, dancing, glitter, speaking in tongues, and faith healing).. for me this paragraph sums it up regarding jehovah's witnesses: " ...smith described organized religion to me as having become a “polluted” idea in the american mainstream, because of the publicity around sex abuse scandals and financial malfeasance in many different faiths in the ’80s and ’90s as millennials came of age.

“the scandals violated most of the virtues believed to make religion good,” smith wrote.

careful

BA2, thx for the PEW study link. Interesting, given how the decline of religion in almost all areas of American subculture, liberal/conservative, Christian/Jewish, Protestant/Catholic has been going on for decades now. If it has indeed been leveling off, that's a significant change.

The one place it has been increasing is in the extreme right wing of evangelical Protestants, Trump supporters and all.

RG, that's an important observation re: Islam. I realize you're speaking of those native lands. I wonder if that's true among Moslem immigrants to the USA, especially the first-generation born-ins whose parents immigrated. Do they have the same fervor for Islam that their parents have, or are they becoming secularized like the young native-born American Jews, Protestants, and Catholics are? I remember having a young doctor not long back whose parents immigrated from the Middle East. He had a typical Arab last name, El- or Ab- something that was definitely Arabic. I asked him once about something about Arabic. He looked at me blankly and said, "I don't know about that stuff" with a degree of disdain. He wound up marrying an attractive blonde American woman. Their kids surely won't be raised Moslems!