Posts by Jeffro

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

Halcon:

Essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc. All things practiced in ancient Babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in Revelation).
Or is this too simple of an explanation?

It is no explanation at all. It is conspicuously vague, and where it is specific, it is factually incorrect.

Babylon was used as a metaphor for Rome because Babylon had previously destroyed Jerusalem, and Rome did something similar. (This also invalidates the separate claim that 'Babylon the Great' was Jerusalem, as Jerusalem had already been destroyed when Revelation was written.)

You attribute far too much significance to the use of the term 'pharmakeia', which Revelation does not give as the primary identifier of 'Babylon the Great', and is properly seen as a metaphor for Rome's influence over its client kingdoms.

Also, although the Babylonians were polytheists, their deities were viewed as more capricious rather than each being definitively 'good' or 'evil', and they didn't practice 'devil worship' (a later concept introduced via Persian Zoroastrianism). And although they (and the early Jews with their 'Urim and Thummim') practiced divination, it wasn't 'witchcraft'.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

Imagine the faithful claiming exclusive rights to define faith, while ignoring not only reason but also the contradictory faith of others.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

The scriptures are about God, yet you claim they aren't.

The scriptures are about religious belief, which my comments accurately described.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

because you have no faith

What you call ‘faith’ is actually just circular reasoning favouring your preferred superstitious interpretation, which is mutually exclusive to other superstitious interpretations that are also arrived at by others based on ‘faith’

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

A tedious and predictable response easily shown to be false. You claim I’m confused, but I provided direct explanations based on the original text reflecting both the religious beliefs of early Christians and their relationship with Rome based on historical fact. It is you who is confused.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

Halcon:

Jeffro, refer to my statement you quoted.

Yes, your view is an example of superstitious attempts to make the failed predictions remain relevant. Instead of acknowledging that they were simply wrong, these attempts try to salvage the failed interpretations by reinterpreting them, almost always with unfalsifiable claims involving vague symbolism, conveniently invisible ‘fulfilments’, and remaining failures as ‘still in the future’.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

Halcon:

However, the scriptures deal with spirituality first (history afterwards)

No, this type of apocalyptic literature describes historical (then recent and contemporary) events through a religious lens and asserts hypothetical future responses by their preferred deity.

clearly the conflict between God and the devil didn't end with Jerusalem and Rome in the first century.

Refer to second half of my first paragraph.

The Greek word pharmakeia is a big clue, as sorcery and witchcraft could be argued is more prevalent today than ever before.

No. You are simply imposing a modern concept of ‘pharmacy’ on top of the original meaning and usage of the word.

It also further argues in favor of the point that Babylon the great has nothing to do with any Christian church.

At least you got that bit right.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

“Babylon the Great” in Revelation represents ancient Rome, and first century Christians could readily identify “Babylon the Great”—‘riding a seven-headed beast’ that explicitly represent “seven mountains”—as Rome when Revelation was first written. However, because the grandiose finale presented in Revelation did not come to fruition near the time of writing, various religious groups (including Jehovah’s Witnesses) have superstitiously proposed other ‘identities’ to extend Revelation’s ‘fulfilment’ beyond the ancient Roman era. In reality, it doesn’t actually mean anything for ‘our day’.

Jehovah’s Witnesses (and some others) assert that “Babylon the Great” is not a “political power” on the basis that Revelation 17:2 says it has “immoral relations” with the “kings of the earth”. However, the Roman Empire oversaw various subordinate client kingdoms, each with its own ‘king’. (Judea was itself one such client kingdom, under the jurisdiction of Herod, who is described as a king at Matthew 2:3 and Mark 6:14 using the same Greek term as at Revelation 17:2—basileus, βασιλεύς, Strong’s G935.) Revelation 17:18 accurately describes “Babylon the Great”—that is, ancient Rome—as a city with a kingdom over other kings. The identification of “Babylon the Great” as “the mother of the prostitutes” alludes to the purported licentiousness in Rome being reflected in the empire’s other cities and Revelation 18:3, 9 suggests that the “immorality” of “Babylon the Great” refers to Rome’s interactions with its client kingdoms.

Rome is called “Babylon the Great” in Revelation as an analogy comparing the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army in 70 CE with the prior destruction of the city by Nebuchadnezzar II in 587 BCE. Revelation 18:4–5 therefore warned first century Christians to get out of ‘Babylon’ (that is, ancient Rome).

The Greek term pharmakeia (φαρμακεία, Strong’s G5331) at Revelation 18:23, generally rendered as sorcery, magic or witchcraft refers to the use of drugs or poisons (used in the verse as a metaphor) and the only connection with ‘spiritism’ is a superstitious ignorance of biochemistry.

53

What is really Babylon the great?

by Halcon in

for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.

essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.

all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.

Jeffro

Rome. Specifically, first century Rome. It’s not hard.

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Jeffro

I don’t care for these tedious games. It hardly matters to me whether you think I’m predictable. I corrected you because what you said wasn’t correct. Nothing more.

If someone says a person is not correct (and provides specific reasons), the person can either:

acknowledge the error
provide a valid refutation
provide an invalid refutation (‘scholar’s’ MO)
assert that the correction is invalid without giving reasons
ignore it
throw a tantrum

I really don’t know why you so often choose the latter when you are clearly capable of better..