A tedious and predictable response easily shown to be false. You claim I’m confused, but I provided direct explanations based on the original text reflecting both the religious beliefs of early Christians and their relationship with Rome based on historical fact. It is you who is confused.
Posts by Jeffro
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53What is really Babylon the great?
by Halcon infor believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
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53
What is really Babylon the great?
by Halcon infor believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
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Jeffro
Halcon:
Jeffro, refer to my statement you quoted.
Yes, your view is an example of superstitious attempts to make the failed predictions remain relevant. Instead of acknowledging that they were simply wrong, these attempts try to salvage the failed interpretations by reinterpreting them, almost always with unfalsifiable claims involving vague symbolism, conveniently invisible ‘fulfilments’, and remaining failures as ‘still in the future’.
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53
What is really Babylon the great?
by Halcon infor believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
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Jeffro
Halcon:
However, the scriptures deal with spirituality first (history afterwards)
No, this type of apocalyptic literature describes historical (then recent and contemporary) events through a religious lens and asserts hypothetical future responses by their preferred deity.
clearly the conflict between God and the devil didn't end with Jerusalem and Rome in the first century.
Refer to second half of my first paragraph.
The Greek word pharmakeia is a big clue, as sorcery and witchcraft could be argued is more prevalent today than ever before.
No. You are simply imposing a modern concept of ‘pharmacy’ on top of the original meaning and usage of the word.
It also further argues in favor of the point that Babylon the great has nothing to do with any Christian church.
At least you got that bit right.
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53
What is really Babylon the great?
by Halcon infor believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
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Jeffro
“Babylon the Great” in Revelation represents ancient Rome, and first century Christians could readily identify “Babylon the Great”—‘riding a seven-headed beast’ that explicitly represent “seven mountains”—as Rome when Revelation was first written. However, because the grandiose finale presented in Revelation did not come to fruition near the time of writing, various religious groups (including Jehovah’s Witnesses) have superstitiously proposed other ‘identities’ to extend Revelation’s ‘fulfilment’ beyond the ancient Roman era. In reality, it doesn’t actually mean anything for ‘our day’.
Jehovah’s Witnesses (and some others) assert that “Babylon the Great” is not a “political power” on the basis that Revelation 17:2 says it has “immoral relations” with the “kings of the earth”. However, the Roman Empire oversaw various subordinate client kingdoms, each with its own ‘king’. (Judea was itself one such client kingdom, under the jurisdiction of Herod, who is described as a king at Matthew 2:3 and Mark 6:14 using the same Greek term as at Revelation 17:2—basileus, βασιλεύς, Strong’s G935.) Revelation 17:18 accurately describes “Babylon the Great”—that is, ancient Rome—as a city with a kingdom over other kings. The identification of “Babylon the Great” as “the mother of the prostitutes” alludes to the purported licentiousness in Rome being reflected in the empire’s other cities and Revelation 18:3, 9 suggests that the “immorality” of “Babylon the Great” refers to Rome’s interactions with its client kingdoms.
Rome is called “Babylon the Great” in Revelation as an analogy comparing the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army in 70 CE with the prior destruction of the city by Nebuchadnezzar II in 587 BCE. Revelation 18:4–5 therefore warned first century Christians to get out of ‘Babylon’ (that is, ancient Rome).
The Greek term pharmakeia (φαρμακεία, Strong’s G5331) at Revelation 18:23, generally rendered as sorcery, magic or witchcraft refers to the use of drugs or poisons (used in the verse as a metaphor) and the only connection with ‘spiritism’ is a superstitious ignorance of biochemistry.
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53
What is really Babylon the great?
by Halcon infor believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
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Jeffro
Rome. Specifically, first century Rome. It’s not hard.
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187
Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!
by BoogerMan init-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".
it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.
" (galatians 2:1-10).
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Jeffro
I don’t care for these tedious games. It hardly matters to me whether you think I’m predictable. I corrected you because what you said wasn’t correct. Nothing more.
If someone says a person is not correct (and provides specific reasons), the person can either:
- acknowledge the error
- provide a valid refutation
- provide an invalid refutation (‘scholar’s’ MO)
- assert that the correction is invalid without giving reasons
- ignore it
- throw a tantrum
I really don’t know why you so often choose the latter when you are clearly capable of better..
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187
Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!
by BoogerMan init-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".
it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.
" (galatians 2:1-10).
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Jeffro
😒
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187
Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!
by BoogerMan init-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".
it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.
" (galatians 2:1-10).
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Jeffro
KalebOutWest:
I am neither saying nor implying that at all.
Didn't say you did. 🙄 I gave a broader analysis.
The part where you were wrong was really this bit:
You just end up like the rest of Christendom who say "we don't know" as well
Because that's precisely why they won't let go of 1914 for the foreseeable future. (Though that is separate to how they are perceived by outsiders as just another nutty group.)
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187
Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!
by BoogerMan init-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".
it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.
" (galatians 2:1-10).
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Jeffro
KalebOutWest:
So who cares about 607 BCE anymore? In the face of all that failure and the new "we don't know" it is virtually meaningless. Believe in 607 BCE all you want. You just end up like the rest of Christendom who say "we don't know" as well, many of whom also believe these are the last days.
You’re kind of right (and you hit right at the core issue), but also not. Though there could be a long term plan to quietly abandon 607 BCE, it is many years off if at all. The Watch Towers Society needs 607 BCE and 1914, and will do for the foreseeable future. One of their core tenets is that they are ‘the only true Christians’, but without their eschatology hinged around 1914, they’re just another group like other Adventists and more specifically other Bible Student movement groups. More broadly they’d be like other nontrinitarian groups such as Christadelphians. So, who cares about 607 BCE? They do. See also Are 607 BCE and 1914 still relevant?
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187
Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!
by BoogerMan init-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".
it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.
" (galatians 2:1-10).
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Jeffro
WT scholars do know precisely, and that was 607 BCE .
I’ve provided clear logical reasoning that demonstrates that the sources indicate 587 BCE when properly examined. But all poor addled ‘scholar’ has is ‘70 years must have started in 607 BCE because it must have ended in 537 BCE because it must have started in 607 BCE…’. And all because they’re too embarrassed to admit that their dogma about 1914 is nonsense. 🤣🤦♂️