Posts by isaacaustin

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

I personally look to the Bible for answers...as opposed to the WT. I look to the Bible itself to answer questions raised, as opposed to WT lit. So my view of the Bible has deepened since losing the WT blinders.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

What about all the lies the WTS has told us for the last 140 years?? Oh I forgot....those weren't "lies", they were all just "present truths".

Present truths, current truths...never lies, false prophecies, false teachings, errors, mistakes, dogma- those phrases are reserved for all others. The WT gets a free pass here.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

Lol i've been married twice and wore a ring both time but both marriages were while I wasn't a witness and in both cases I stopped wearing the ring fairly quickly because my fingers got allergic, I had no compulsion to find a way to continue wearing them and didn't feel less married for not wearing them, Like I've said before, a wedding ring is a gnat in comparison to a camel when you compare it's paganess to christmas pagan rituals all still practiced and for the benefit of those that like the I's dotted although it's easily googled, this is the first google one that comes up, a bit brief but covers most points

Who decides what is a gnat or a camel Reniaa? And regarding what you posted as to the pagan origin of the tree that is very debatable.

So, I again ask for a clear cut, direct answer as to where the bible clearly says to ro shows one to abstain from Christmas, or birthdays?

I have shown you Romans 14 which deals extensively with the use of one's own conscience and not to judge others based on their observance of days. This would directly seem to rule out the practice of disfellowshipping due to one's celebrating of a day.

If you want to apply the pagan origin rule you must do it blanketly and consistently- not only to what the Wt calls a bigger issue.

Please give direct answers to these points.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

I think so sacolton. At least with many. Those who are not into deep thinking but simply follow the WT like drones would be more than happy. Many of the old-timers would have quite a difficult time with this.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

For both of you some questions.... if we found an early gospel that actually gave a date for jesus's birth would you suddenly drop christmas and adopt this new date? and if you did would you keep the pagan origin rituals that come with christmas like the lights, tree etc?

Please elaborate on "the pagan origin rituals that come with christmas like the lights, tree etc" This is an assertion that is speculatory at best.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

I can not answer for the average person. In Passover i am assuming you are speaking of partaking of the body of Christ? I would consider this to be of higher importance. But again, this is invalid logic. You are asking which is more important. That in no way makes the other one wrong. The fact that it was not sanctioned by Jesus and was added by man again is irrelevant. You may want to review the book of Esther and observe that the Jews made their own day called Purim to celebrate Israel''s being spared. Christmas, if observed with the right mindset also celebrates and gives glory to a greater deliverance.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

Your right if we apply it too strictly how far down the road do we go? in fact jesus's condemnation of jews was on similar lines, they squeezed the gnat out of every situation. but if you say a wedding ring has lost it's original meaning so do you then say it's gotta be ok to celebrate christmas, new year etc because we allowed the ring? when they promote over-eating, over-drinking, greed etc

basically you are saying the greater sin is ok because we allow the lesser? jesus came across that issue a lot

Reniaa,

The WT has arbitrarily picked and chosen what is ok and what is not, using one set of logic for things commonplace such as wedding rigns and anniversaires and intentionally used their stringent stand on activities that the exclusion from effects children.

Birthdays out. Why? It isolates kids at school from other kids. That child doesn't fit in with 'worldy' children right from the get-go. Where else is there to go??

Anniversaries ok. Why? They are generally a family affair or with close friends. What friends? Other JWs.....The office place generally takes fellow employees out for what? Their birthday. Not so with anniversaries.

Regarding your comment that Christmas promotes overeating,greed, etc...that is not true. Christmas does not...some businesses do...some people do. Hunting rifles have a good purpose and a wrong purpose. Again Reniaa...it is how it is done...

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

hey there isaacaustin, you make a good example but if (and i think you can apply this to more than christmas) you allow for the original house to be gangmember one and it was taken over by christians if they then go on to do all the things in the house that the gangmember did doesn't that still make them wrong?

That is the point Reniaa. It depends on what you are doing. Just as one can hold a birthday celebration and not behead someone...one observing Christmas is doing just that- Christmas, not Saturnalia.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

Here is an example from the very next chapter in the same letter were paul is then telling us to teach and admonish each other, surely there is a conflict if this first part means we as christians can do anything as long as it is in christs name, the principles against new year christmas and such-like isn't so much that they are festivals but what they are in practise. If you stick a label on a lump of cheese declaring it is actually eggs, it doesn't make it eggs it's still cheese! in fact it will revert back to cheese too because if it is a christian celebration it would stay that way but if it is pagan it will go back to it's pagan roots in it's expression, so when you look in how christmas is expressed worldwide now, is it seen as a christian festival or a santa claus one? how many people still goto mass at christmas? but you can pretty much apply this principle to any made-over festival/holiday.

Reniaa,

A festival called Christmas came on the scene to REPLACE a pagan festival called Saturnalia. I am sure you know that. A battle between evil and good. Who won out? Do you know anyone today who celebrates Saturnalia? I do not. Your illustration of tangible property to a matter that Paul in Romans describes as up to one's conscience simply is a very poor illustration. It is comparing apples and oranges. A better example may be...if a gangmember is to construct a building and use it to conduct his business...and the building is later sold...(legal technicalities aside here as I am not a lawyer familiar with such)....would the new owner be guilty of being a gangbanger...since he is in a place that had its origin or beginning as such? Or would his use of the building be the determining factor of whether he is committing a wrong?

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

isaacaustin

I'm a very much a bible follower so any christian faith I look at is measured against it! Take christmas a typical celebration often embraced by ex-JW's why? I can google it and find out for myself its pagan origins quite easily, I can then look at the whole 'Golden calf' biblical story where God punishes israelites for trying to put egyptian practices in line with there belief in God, if its ok to celebrate christmas despite it's origins then God was wrong to punish israelites for the same reason? you see my quandary?

Can we diferentiate between what is purely a JW issue and what is seen as wrong biblically?

And if we disagree with a principle clearly condemed in the bible then surely we should admit it?

The golden calf- the actual bowing down and worshipping of an image. Pretty black and white.

The observance of a day- Paul was pretty clear in Romans chapter 14.

	Rom 14:4		Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
	Rom 14:5		One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
	Rom 14:6		He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
	Rom 14:7		For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
	Rom 14:8		For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
	Rom 14:9		For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
	Rom 14:10		But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

The WT on one hand gives a very balanced viewpoint in saying that we do not need to explore and uncover the origin of everything and remove all traces of paganism from our lives- it is what it means now, today to people. Good advice! They apply this to anniversaries/wedings/wedding rings and a host of other things. They have another set of standards they apply to activites they want their members to refrain from such as birthdays, holidays, etc...which again, the origin is unknow and obsolete to the average person. Why the difference? To create a wall, a separation between their members and the outsiders so that the JW will not feel comfortable around 'worldy persons'....building the 'where else is there to go' concept.

Reniaa you sure do like to ask questions you already know the answer to don;t you you? hmm