Haven't read any of Ehrman books as yet. They sound interesting. Crtical analysis of the Bible has been going on for at least 100 yrs. Over that period of time several of Paul's wrtings and certian portions of others have been called into question. This is the frist I have heard of the Timothy books. Swiss cheese indeed.
Quentin
JoinedPosts by Quentin
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Was the Bible forged? Author claims some New Testament books were written by 'people pretending to be apostles'
by whereami inwas the bible forged?
author claims some new testament books were written by 'people pretending to be apostles'.
by daily mail reporter.
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Question of the Day: Why are so very few of Jesus ACTUAL WORDS...
by Terry inwhy are so very few of jesus actual words recorded exactly?.
the new testament is almost entirely written in greek.. jesus spoke aramaic.
maybe a bit of what was called "market greek".
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Quentin
There is absolutely no proof that Jesus' exact words were lost.....Band
Western, or Easteren, there's absolutely no proof they werent....
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Question of the Day: Why are so very few of Jesus ACTUAL WORDS...
by Terry inwhy are so very few of jesus actual words recorded exactly?.
the new testament is almost entirely written in greek.. jesus spoke aramaic.
maybe a bit of what was called "market greek".
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Quentin
Heh, heh, heh...designs I'll keep that in mind.
I make no fun of Shelby's fath, or love for God. However she, and some others, always, always take a thread off topic. No channeling needed, lets stick with the question at hand and reason with logic, historical studies, critical thinking and common sense to answer the question at hand. A dialectic as it were, not a fideism that faith alone is all that's necessary. God told me so ( in my faith ) so that's what I hold too. That's subjective to the individual, not objective to the question.
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Question of the Day: Why are so very few of Jesus ACTUAL WORDS...
by Terry inwhy are so very few of jesus actual words recorded exactly?.
the new testament is almost entirely written in greek.. jesus spoke aramaic.
maybe a bit of what was called "market greek".
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Quentin
"... I think both dear Quentin's and your own assertions... along with many scholars... Although, none of these are my source; rather, thatwould be what I received from my Lord himself"....Shelby
Shelby, I admire your faith, but you have taken the thread off topic by carring the topic into an abstract debate over what language Jesus spoke. The language is not IMPORTANT. Rather it is WHY we have so very few of Jesus actual words. Then "what I received from my Lord himself" being your appeal to authority. Okay, fine that's YOUR a posteriori experience. This is an a priori topic, we have NO experince of Jesus actual words. That is the why we seek to answer. God speaks to me as well, through many venus. I very seldom if ever inject that into a disscission, even with Terry, there's no value in it. Facts, logic, reason the correspondence theory of truth are our watchwords. Not what we precive as received from the Lord himself.
Take a red letter edtion of the Bible, read the red letter words only. Therein you will find that 10-20% of what is written may be the actual words of Jesus. The rest being what the writers chose to incorperate into their gospels. Now, lets get back to the why and stay off these sidebars.
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Question of the Day: Why are so very few of Jesus ACTUAL WORDS...
by Terry inwhy are so very few of jesus actual words recorded exactly?.
the new testament is almost entirely written in greek.. jesus spoke aramaic.
maybe a bit of what was called "market greek".
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Quentin
It's all magic, Terry. Whatever logic you lay down will be dismissed with "it's magic and spirit fluffiness".......Unshakled
There you go Terry logic has no place in this disscusion, along with historical evedence, critical redaction, or any other method of examining Jesus, or the NT Church....Sad, but true....
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Question of the Day: Why are so very few of Jesus ACTUAL WORDS...
by Terry inwhy are so very few of jesus actual words recorded exactly?.
the new testament is almost entirely written in greek.. jesus spoke aramaic.
maybe a bit of what was called "market greek".
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Quentin
From Wikipedia
Aramaic is a Semitic language belonging to the Afroasiaticlanguage family (etym. language of Aram, [ 3 ] an ancient region in central Syria). Within this family, Aramaic belongs to the Semitic subfamily, and more specifically, is a part of the Northwest Semitic group of languages, which also includes Canaanite languages such as Hebrew and Phoenician. Aramaic script was widely adopted for other languages and is ancestral to both the Arabic and modern Hebrew alphabets.
During its 3,000-year history, [ 4 ] Aramaic has served variously as a language of administration of empires and as a language of divine worship. It was the day-to-day language of Israel in the Second Temple period (539 BCE – 70 CE), was the original language of large sections of the biblical books of Daniel and Ezra, the Gospel of Matthew, [ 5 ] was the language spoken by Jesus, and is the main language of the Talmud. [ 6 ]
Aramaic's long history and diverse and widespread use has led to the development of many divergent varieties which are sometimes treated as dialects. Therefore, there is no one singular Aramaic language, but each time and place has had its own variation. Aramaic is retained as a liturgical language by certain Eastern Christian churches, in the form of Syriac, the Aramaic variety by which Eastern Christianity was diffused, whether or not those communities once spoke it or another form of Aramaic as their vernacular, but have since shifted to another language as their primary community language.
Modern Aramaic is spoken today as a first language by many scattered, predominantly small, and largely isolated communities of differing Christian, Jewish and Mandean groups of West Asia [ 7 ] —most numerously by the Assyrians (also known as Chaldo-Assyrians) in the form of Assyrian Neo-Aramaic and Chaldean Neo-Aramaic and also Mandic—that have all retained use of the once dominant lingua franca despite subsequent language shifts experienced throughout the Middle East. The Aramaic languages are considered to be endangered. [ 8 ]
If you spent day in and day out with somebody who referred to his own person as SON OF MAN why would you leap to the conclusion he didn't mean SON OF MAN but really mean SON OF GOD??....Terry
Good point....being a strech from Son of Man ( Jesus had no oejection being refered to by that title ) to Son of God. There was another title used Son of David. The Gosples indicate Jesus DID NOT LIKE that title being used to describe him as it had ploitical overtones and several times he admonished the user not to refer to him in that manner.
Of the four Gosples John's gospel has the strongest fondation for even thinking Jesus was THE SON OF GOD, also The Gospel of John is a subtle Gnostic description of Jesus and his ministry.
Do we have the actual "words of Jesus". No, Paul's writings came frist not the Gospels. A crital and historical study of the NT bears this out with the conclusin the Gospels were writen at leasst 70 yrs after the fact.
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Question of the Day: Why are so very few of Jesus ACTUAL WORDS...
by Terry inwhy are so very few of jesus actual words recorded exactly?.
the new testament is almost entirely written in greek.. jesus spoke aramaic.
maybe a bit of what was called "market greek".
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Quentin
Now I gotta go do more re-search....You rouge, I want to stay warm and cuddly in my comfort zone... But noooo....have to use my brain..
Interesting questions to answer by the way.
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Warning about possible artificial end of times
by Joey Jo-Jo inposted by benjaminmarch 28, 2011post text with the read more linkthe people of the world need to urgently take action against the cabal responsible for the nuclear and tsunami attack against japan because it is a sign they are desperate, dangerous and are speeding up their planned artificial end-times.
the next attack is almost certain to take place on us soil and is expected to be far worse than what happened to japan, according to multiple cabal-linked sources.
the cabal is also planning to announce a new global currency in the coming weeks but it will fail because it is merely a desperate bid by them to remain in control of global finance, according to sources in the british royal family and at the bis.. .
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The Loving Disfellowshipping Arrangement
by headisspinning inmy youngest sister is the only person in my jw family who has had any real contact with my husband and i and our baby.
for the first year she cut us off too but then after a while she seemed to realize how horrible it was and she opened up to us.. well, she is very easily influenced by the family and so she cut us off again.
she tried to feed me the line about it being for our own good blah, blah, blah.. here is an excerpt from how i replied:.
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Quentin
There is one thing I'd like to say to you and your present husband. You did not and have not commited adultry. You are not living in adultry, nor are you engaging in a sinfull relationship. You are a husband and wife duely and lawfully married with a baby of your own. You said youself two years passed before either of you got involved.
The wtbts, as far as I'm aware, is the only religous entity that interprets Jesus words about marriage in that manner. How do you know your ex-spouses didn't fool around, make hooey on the sly? You don't, get yourself some good family law counslers a copy of the wt book mentioned above and go after these jw snobs.
Now, I whish you and your husband, with all my heart, things turn out well for you and your other children. But please stop beating youselfs up over things you can't change. Move forward and do something about the things you can change in the here and now. It wont be an easy task, yet it can be done.
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Perhaps these are REALLY revealing questions!
by Terry inwe treat the other differently the more we know about them.. if we meet a powerful official we act, talk and think differently while in their presence.
(rather than a homeless person, a gang member, a saleman, etc.).
how much more so this affects how we think and act concerning who we worship!.
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Quentin
1.God is three persons in ONE....Hmmmm, how many have lost their lives over this concept of God. "It's just as blasphemous to define God, as it is to denie him"...Rhinehold Niebur.
2.God is a singularity of individual personality with a separate "son".....Romans 8:14-17, Pau'ls attempt to answer the question.
3.God is an intelligence without name or knowable identity....See quote from #1.
4.God is female...A priori comment. If God, as creator, made man and woman it is resasonable to conclude God is both masculine and femminine. Don't forget there are two creation stories in Genisis.
I have come to a place in my life wherein God has become a highly personel and individual part of my life. Doing to the best of my ability to live by "The Law of the Good Samaritain". Maintaining this all the Creator expects of us. Faith without works is indeed dead. If your going to talk the talk, you had better walk the walk. Also, I have no problem talking, or disscussing God all day long, but see absolutly no value in attempting to convert anyone to what I belive or feel about spritual things. It is up to the other person to reach their own conclusions, not for me to judge, nor say.