Check_Your_Premises

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Posts by Check_Your_Premises

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  20

  Help me out, ex-jw Christians: JW and salvation

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been doing some more research and thinking about the topic of salvation.

  what got me working on this, is that i have been conducting a bible study, with my family.

  i decided a good topic would be the overall theme of the bible.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I have been doing some more research and thinking about the topic of salvation. What got me working on this, is that I have been conducting a Bible study, with my family. I decided a good topic would be the overall theme of the Bible. I broke the Bible down into 5 key points. 1. There is a God, and He created the universe. 2. Man rebelled against God, thereby consigning mankind to a life apart from God, which ultimately ends in our death. 3. God sent His son to pay our debt, by sacrificing Himself in our stead. 4. There will be a judgement, where those who are faithful, believe in 1 and 2, and repent from sin, will have everlasting life. Those who choose to remain in rebellion will have everlasting death. 5. The original order will be restored. After 3 years of studying with the dubs, my children were completely ignorant , and oblivious to the fact that they will face judgement from God. I think this is because the jw foster a false sense of security, in that if you are in good standing with the "visible organization", then you are worthy of salvation. Maybe that is why you have folks leading double lives. They think as long as thier standing with the org is ok, their standing with God is ok? I did a search on the word in the WT cd. One article came up in 2000. Before that there wasn't one hit on that word since 1960, I believe. That struck me as awfully odd. What purpose does a church provide if not to help an individual develop a relationship with God, and through that relationship, be granted salvation. I think that is really a weak spot for them. My wife says that it is not required that a person be a dub, to gain salvation. That is the current "light", is that not correct? But then that begs the question, why does a person need to be a jw then? I also read about salvation in the Reasoning book. They seem to admit that there are faithful (therefore worthy of salvation in other churches). And they will likely admit that there are those among them that are not worthy of salvation. Doesn't that imply that God's people are not all those who are faithful/unfaithful in a certain organization. Rather it is those truly faithful, regardless of who they worship with. The next one they hit, is the whole "get out of the harlot" deal. So the gist of that, is if you go to other churches you will be destroyed with them.... even if you are one of the faithful? So God is going to destroy His faithful, because they are attending the "wrong church", only to resurrect them and grant them eternal life? The more I think about it, the more clear it becomes to me why the discussion of judgement and salvation are not hot topics. If the topic is explored in depth by the faithful, they might realize that they don't need the "visible organization" at all. Let me know if I am misunderstanding any of this.
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  14

  Parallels between Catholic and JW sex abuse scandals?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  is anyone well versed in the parallels between the policies in the respective groups that have led directly to this problem, how they have dealt with the problem, how they have/haven't reformed?.

  how has catholic church had the same problems as jw?.

  how has catholic church been worse in their policies than jw?.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I am just giving this one a bump. I figured it would get more action, but it was Friday afternoon....

  CYP
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  32

  A jw snopes type web site?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  any who have checked out snopes.com, know that it is a very effective baloney detection device.

  it is amazing how many phoney stories end up coming some so many credible sources.

  for the dubs, the urban legend serves an important function of protecting and bolstering their faith.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I looked around the internet for the John Denver JW story. NOthing.

  Anybody else?
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  14

  Parallels between Catholic and JW sex abuse scandals?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  is anyone well versed in the parallels between the policies in the respective groups that have led directly to this problem, how they have dealt with the problem, how they have/haven't reformed?.

  how has catholic church had the same problems as jw?.

  how has catholic church been worse in their policies than jw?.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Blondie,

  Ok give me some advice.

  Let's say I wanted to bring this up to a dub. The approach I was thinking of taking was to first get them to take notice of, and join me in criticizing certain practices of the Catholic church. And then once those specific criticisms are firmly established, I then begin to inquire about the practices of the witness with the hope that those same criticisms would be applicable to the witnesses.

  How do you think I should go about doing that?

  Any thoughts?
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  14

  Parallels between Catholic and JW sex abuse scandals?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  is anyone well versed in the parallels between the policies in the respective groups that have led directly to this problem, how they have dealt with the problem, how they have/haven't reformed?.

  how has catholic church had the same problems as jw?.

  how has catholic church been worse in their policies than jw?.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Ok Blondie, fair enough. What about my description of the WT? Is that accurate? Would I be able to support it with their literature? Would I be able to get an elder, for instance, to admit to my above description?
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  14

  Parallels between Catholic and JW sex abuse scandals?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  is anyone well versed in the parallels between the policies in the respective groups that have led directly to this problem, how they have dealt with the problem, how they have/haven't reformed?.

  how has catholic church had the same problems as jw?.

  how has catholic church been worse in their policies than jw?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Check_Your_Premises

  Blondie,

  I have contacted SNAP. Thanks for the idea. Basically I sent my previous post, and asked them to comment on the Catholic part.

  Is there anything I am missing in regards to the Catholic church? The witnesses? Is anything I mentioned incorrect?

  Please don't misunderstand me as wanting to show how the Catholic church is better. I am simply trying to understand how the problem has come up in both churches.

  CYP
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  14

  Parallels between Catholic and JW sex abuse scandals?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  is anyone well versed in the parallels between the policies in the respective groups that have led directly to this problem, how they have dealt with the problem, how they have/haven't reformed?.

  how has catholic church had the same problems as jw?.

  how has catholic church been worse in their policies than jw?.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  
  Alright I will take a stab at some of the policies that cause the problem

  Catholic Church policies that make molestation more likely:

  In some cases when the Church found out a Preist was molesting children, they would simply re-assign the Preist to another parish.

  Questions:

  1. How did the Church determine abuse had occurred? Did the child or parent simply have to come forward with a complaint (vs. a 2 witness rule required by dubs)?

  2. Did the Church contact law enforcement if not required by law?

  3. Did the Church take any action or threat against a parent for pressing charges against the priest?

  4. Did the Church become involved at all if there were molestation allegations between lay members of the parish? Did the Church take any action against or threats against members who pressed legal charges against other members?

  5. Does the Church forbid members from informing others of pedophiles in the parish, for the purpose of protecting them?

  JW Policies that make molestation more likely:

  1. If a child is molested, and it is brought to the elders, they contact law enforcment ONLY if required by law.

  2. If a child is molested, and there are not two witnesses to the act, the accused molestor is free from any organizational sanction.

  3. If a child is molested, the JW will disfellowship anyone who presses charges against the alleged molester. (Is this correct?)

  4. If a person is accused, and even found to be guilty by judicial committeeof molesting children, no person is allowed to inform other members of the congregation for the purposes of protecting them.

  5. JW require that their members prostletyze. Therefore they send known pedophiles to the homes of an unknowing public.

  Question:

  1. I hear a great deal how whenever someone is disfellowshipped, "everyone knows why". Doesn't that same rumor mill, basically cause word to get around if there is a pedophile in the congregation?

  2. When a child molester is accused, but not found guilty by J.C., do the elders try to "keep an eye on" the person to make sure he does not come in contact with children in the congregation?

  3. When a child molester is found guilty by J.C., how do the elders prevent the person from coming in contact with the children of the congregation, without telling everyone of the persons proclivities?

  4. How can they possibly know the extent to which a suspected or known pedophile has access to the children of the cong or out in field service, unless they follow him around constantly?
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  14

  Parallels between Catholic and JW sex abuse scandals?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  is anyone well versed in the parallels between the policies in the respective groups that have led directly to this problem, how they have dealt with the problem, how they have/haven't reformed?.

  how has catholic church had the same problems as jw?.

  how has catholic church been worse in their policies than jw?.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Bumpety-bump
• 
  102

  What's Your Favorite JW Expressions?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i like "theocratic strategy", "new light", "the slave", and "lovers of truth"......anything that you find amusing?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  For some reason I get a kick out of them calling the apostles, "the visible organization at that time"....

  ...do you get it dummy....

  ....hint hint....

  ...which makes them modern day apostles! DUH! You stupid Ethiopian Eunich!
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  14

  Parallels between Catholic and JW sex abuse scandals?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  is anyone well versed in the parallels between the policies in the respective groups that have led directly to this problem, how they have dealt with the problem, how they have/haven't reformed?.

  how has catholic church had the same problems as jw?.

  how has catholic church been worse in their policies than jw?.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Check_Your_Premises

  I will just thank Blondie now in advance.