oldflame

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Posts by oldflame

• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

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  oldflame

  I think I pissed my son off he is not answering me now !
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  maputo95,

  It's not the Arianism of the WT I abhor but it's hatred of World culture and its insistence that all except them are wrong and satanic and its high contol absurd policies on blood.

  Man I am right there with you on that one.
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  Update:

  Well he has not replied to me and it has been 30 hours ago since my last letter to him. He says on his myspace that he is agravated with a little red smily so I don't know if that is towards me or the JW's. I guess I will give it another day and see what happens, I full well knowing what to expect is probably more than likely will turn on me.
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  How so Designs ?
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  Thanks for your ideas and I thank you for them. My son is a very stubborn headed person I just hope that his stubborness helps with this situation.
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  Well we have had some discussion it sounds like he has his own mind. That could be good or it could be bad I don't know yet but this is our conversation.

  He wrote me and said ;

  You must not be listening to me because i told you this has nothing to do with jw you keep bringing it back to them every scripture i showed you was from the niv bible the one you said you use i studied on my own to show these scriptures this has nothing to do with jw if you have common sense you can understand the scriptures without anyone telling you anything i dont need jws telling me i can see the truth on my own

  I replied back ;

  Hi Son,

  Okay I did not know that, I only know that you are studying with them and I also full well know what they do and what they teach. I hope that you do understand how vital this is if you get involved with a cult religion. That's all ! I am so glad that you have your own mind and yes I know that you are very capable of understanding what you read in the scriptures , but the one thing they teach the most is that the governing body in Bethel New York are the only ones capable of that and it is them who give the understanding to the flock. What a bunch of crockery, the bible was written for anyone to read and understand it is a proven fact that the bible is the easiest book to read and understand.
  I love you and I care about you deeply, you are my son my flesh andblood and darn it I care when oneof my kids are about to get involved with something very dangerous. not a physical danger but a spiritual danger. Please just make sure of all things before you go believeing them. I can show you with their own writings in their magazines where they have lied to their flock many many times. They have made predictions and what does the bible say about predictions ?
  Deuteronomy 18:22 says If a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord and it does not happen then the prophecy did not come from the Lord.

  Son they have made claims of the end of the earth several times and when you ask them about it they reply that it was just a rumor but I can get copies of watchtowers that says differently that they actually set a day month and time for christ return. They have done this many many times since 1864. They even built a house for Christ and wore their best suits on that day because they thought Jesus was coming.
  Son the scriptures clearly say that no man knoweth the hour or the day but he did give us thing that would tell us when we are getting close. I must say that scriptural prophecy has been happening faster and more today than it ever has.

  They tell their followers not to smoke but do you know that they have stock in Phillip Morris ? Yes and I can prove it ! Did you also know that they have stock in Rand who builds weapons for the military but don't you dare join ! They call the United Nations the wicked Beast (satan) but yet they were members of the United Nations until they got caught and they are no longer a member this was just a couple of years ago that this happened.
  Then to top it all of the one thing that really pisses me off to no end ? Child Molestors go free in that religion ! Why ? Because they have a two witness rule. Lets say that mom and dad find out that brother bill molested their daughter. They go to the Elders then the Elders go to Brother Bill and ask him if he did this. There is only the accusations of the daughter and no other witness. Well if Brother Bill says no I did not do that, then the parents are instructed to forget it because he did not admit it and there was only one witness. So then the parents decide to go to the police and report the crime the Elders then come to them and say why did you not follow instruction by the Elders do you not trust us ? Then sometimes the parents can be disfellowshipped. Now a lot of states have recently passed laws that those who are high archy in the religion do not report to the police that they can now also be prosecuted. I can show you where there is at this time right now over 250,000.00 law suits right now going on for people who were molested as children against those who committed the acts.
  The crap goes on and on and on. I can show you their lies to the people and their evil control they do. Do you realize that if you do join and then later find out that what I have been telling you all along was true and you leave ? They kick you out and shun you yes thats right if you get disfellowshipped Grandma can no longer have a relationship with you because you are now considered a apostate. In the bible a Apostate is someone who leaves God but to the witness it is someone who leaves their religion you see they believe that their religionis God and the 12 men in Bethel New York are the same as God.
  Anyway I am just saying be very careful and know full well what you are getting involved in. I am a Christian and I have one faith, that faith is in Christ and I know that I cannot get to heaven or everlasting life without him in me. I was baptised twice first time into the Mormon religion which is also a cult and then once in a Christian church the same as you son.
  I have studied scripture for many years and I know the bible well so please do feel free to discuss it with me, I would welcome that....VERY MUCH !
  Love Dad

  And so lets see where this leads us, he will either be very mad at me or he will at least consider what I have said.
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  Wow so many replies. All I can say is Thank you everyone I found so much information in your post. I can not describe how much everyone here is apreciated. I am going to use a lot of what everyone said and I will follow up as this goes along. I just do not want to loose my son to these lying bastards, the WTBS !
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  Hello Everyone,

  I first want to say thank you to all who posted here on my thread. I do agree with many of you about arguing the Trinity but actually he brought it to me for me to refute what he was being taught. My son is not a child he is 27 years old, he is also as stubborn as his dad (me) LOL

  He also does not live with me or in my state I'm in california and he is in Texas.

  I could tell by talking to him that yes they have already brain washed him into believing that I and others will attack him for getting involved. At first when I heard of it I was mad, I mean I was really pissed and I wanted to punch something or someone ! So I backed off a bit and I knew I would be hit with questions or rather his positive theory. Well It happened and I fell to pieces not sure what to say or do as I had told him when he was here about the many things they believe and practice . It is my mother who caused all this who is a witness. His mother my ex-wife is enraged over this especially when it was her birthday and he would not recognize it to her, it through her for a loop and she kicked him out of the house.

  I thought about the books out there like CC and Mary's fine work but I am afraid that as in the past they will just end up in the garbage.

  I have to be very careful in showing him the right way away from the wrong way as he is a very whats the word I'm looking for ? he is easily impressionable I guess I should say. I can say this much I can see I got one hell of a fight on my hands now with the WTBS and my son who I love so dearly.

  Oldflame
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  Some of the stuff in the thread I used from a thread from this site. So there are things quoted...
• 
  87

  My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

  by oldflame in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  listen, israel: the lord our god, the lord is one.

  the lord our god, the lord is one.

  jesus is god: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldflame

  Well my son started a study with the witnesses and man was I pissed when I first heard about it but then I figured he would try to defend it with their crap lies and sure enough it happened so this is what we have discussed so far. He has started with the Trinity. this is long but if anyone can help me out I would be grateful. First he sent me this message,

  Dad, (thats me)

  Please dont get upset or offended but i found a scripture i know you belive in the trinity but this contridicts that ACTS 7:55 NIV says "but stephen, full of holy spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God". First thing that i noticed is that it says stephen was filled with holy spirit not that it was a person or being, also it says that he saw jesus standing at the right hand of god that sounds like two seperate people to me or beings

  My reply back,

  Son,

  I don't get offended son but rather the opposite, I will discuss scripture with you anytime. Here is some things I came up with I hope this helps you understand how Christianity understands the trinity. And how the Witnesses twist it. It is long but I spent a good while doing this so please read it and follow it up by looking them up.
  In the Old Testament God revealed Himself to His chosen people, the Israelites as I AM:
  Ex 3:14-15 - God replied to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM
  has sent me to you.” 15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the Israelites: Yahweh, the God of your fathers,
  the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever;
  this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.
  He also revealed Himself as ONE at Deuteronomy 6:4:
  “Listen, Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One. Deut 6:4
  This is also reiterated in the New Testament at the following scriptures:
  “This is the most important,” Jesus answered:
  Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One. Mark 12:29 (HCSB)
  Then the scribe said to Him, “You are right, Teacher! You have correctly said that He is One, and there is no one else except Him. Mark 12:32

  At 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 this statement is made concerning God:
  For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth—as there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
  yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through Him. 1 Cor 8:5-6
  However, at John 8:58 and at John 8:24 Jesus also referred to Himself as I AM:
  Jesus said to them, “ I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am.” John 8:58
  Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am [He] (bracketed text has been added by the translators for clarity) , you will die in your sins.” John 8:24
  At both scriptures the Greek phrase "Eigo Eimi" is literally translated as I AM in all Interlinears, including the WTBTS's KINGDOM INTERLINEAR.
  At John 8:24 Jesus claimed to be deity, but the Pharisees didn’t understand His meaning.
  Throughout its history, the WTBTS has misrepresented the Trinity concept in order to make its denial of the doctrine plausible to reasonable people:
  *** w72 2/15 104 How Is Jehovah Different from All Other Gods? ***
  Certainly the God of such beauty of personality is no angry god of an eternal torment of hellfire, nor a grotesque three-headed trinitarian god, as Christendom's religions would have their members believe.

  *** w71 10/15 627 Are the Churches Leading the Nations into Collision with God? ***
  The majority of Christendom's churches say that there are three persons in one God, that he is, as it were, a 'three-headed' God. They teach that when Jesus died, God died.

  *** w65 7/1 405 Death of a Dynasty ***
  The leaders of Babylon the Great have represented God as a three-headed trinitarian monstrosity, an eternal-torment fiend, and have led the peoples of the earth to worship other false gods.

  *** w65 11/1 667 Searching for and Finding God ***
  For example, the trinity doctrine was a stumbling block. I had never seen a three-headed man and just could not bring myself to believe that the God I was to worship as my Creator was a God with three heads, which was my impression of the doctrine. Being taught the trinity nearly caused me to lose faith in a Supreme Being.
  Pagan concepts of God are radically different from the doctrine of the Trinity. The Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods. But these triads constituted three separate gods, which is utterly different from the doctrine of the Trinity, which maintains that there is only one God with three persons within God. Pagan practices, including polytheism (belief in more than one god, which is a doctrine the WTBTS promotes as evidenced in the NWT at John 1:1), predate Christianity by 2,000 years and were far removed from the part of the world where Christianity emerged. From a historical and geographical perspective, the suggestion that Christianity borrowed the Trinitarian concept from pagans is unfeasible.
  It is interesting to note that many pagan religions taught the concept of a great flood and a messiah-like figure (Tamuzz) who was resurrected (see the WTBTS's MANKIND's SEARCH FOR GOD book reagrding flood legends).

  *** g89 12/22 12 Do You Worship a Living God? ***
  For example, the ancient Egyptians worshiped the trinity of Osiris, Isis (his wife), and Horus (his son). And the Hindus, even down to this day, worship a trinity made up of the three-headed Trimurti of Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva.

  If the WTBTS uses a consistent method of reasoning, it must follow that the Christian doctrines of the flood, the Messiah (Jesus) and His resurrection are also pagan. Simply because pagans spoke of a concept remotely resembling something found in the Scriptures does not mean the doctrine was stolen from pagans otherwise one would have to conclude that the flood, the Messiah and the resurrection of Christ are also derived from paganism.
  Trinitarians do not believe the Trinity is a God with three heads or a 'three-headed God'. They believe in three co-equal persons who are the nature, essence and being of God.
  The doctrine of the Trinity is based on three lines of evidence:
  1. There is only ONE true God.
  2. There are three persons who are God.
  3. There is a three-in-oneness within God.
  EVIDENCE FOR ONE GOD
  That there is one true God is the consistent testimony of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. It is a thread that runs through every page of the Bible. God positively affirmed through Isaiah the prophet:
  This is what the Lord, the King of Israel and its Redeemer, the Lord of Hosts, says: I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but Me. Isaiah 44:6
  Remember what happened long ago, for I am God, and there is no other; [I am]God, and no one is like Me. Isaiah 46:9
  The oneness of God is also emphasized in the New Testament. In 1 Corinthians 8:4, for example, the apostle Paul asserted that “an idol is nothing in the world,” and that “there is no God but one.”
  James 2:19 says, "You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe—and they shudder." These and a multitude of other verses prove there is one - and only one - God.
  EVIDENCE FOR THREE PERSONS CALLED GOD
  On the one hand, Scripture says there is only one God. Yet in the unfolding of God's revelation to mankind, it also becomes clear that there are 3 distinctive persons who are God in Scripture.
  The Father is God:
  Peter refers to the saints "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the father" (1 Peter 1:2).
  Jesus is God:
  When Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, Thomas said, " My Lord and my God (John 20:28). Jesus did not correct Thomas for this statement. Rather, Jesus said, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Those who believe without seeing are blessed.” John 20:29
  but about the Son: Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of Your kingdom is a scepter of justice. Heb 1:8
  The Holy Spirit is God:
  In Acts 5:3-4, Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds from the field? 4 Wasn’t it yours while you possessed it? And after it was sold, wasn’t it at your disposal? Why is it that you planned this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God!”
  Lying to the Holy Spirit is equated with lying to God.

  Each of the 3 persons, on different occasions is seen to possess the attributes of diety:

  1. Omnipresence:
  The Father:
  “Am I a God who is only near”—[this is] the Lord’s declaration—“and not a God who is far away? 24 Can a man hide himself in secret places where I cannot see him?” —the Lord’s declaration. “Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” —the Lord’s declaration. Jer 23:23-24
  The Son:
  Then Jesus came near and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matt 28:18
  The Holy Spirit:
  Where can I go to escape Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? Psalms 139:7

  2. Omniscience:
  The Father:
  Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments and untraceable His ways! Romans 11:33
  The Son:
  But perceiving their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why are you thinking evil things in your hearts? Matt 9:4
  The Holy Spirit:
  Now God has revealed them to us by the Spirit, for the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God. 1 Cor 2:10
  3. Omnipotence:
  The Father:
  who are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5
  The Son:
  Then Jesus came near and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matt 28:18
  The Holy Spirit:
  by the power of miraculous signs and wonders, and by the power of God’s Spirit. Romans 15:19
  4. Holiness:
  The Father:
  Lord, who will not fear and glorify Your name? Because You alone are holy, because all the nations will come and worship before You, because Your righteous acts have been revealed. Rev 15:4
  The Son:
  But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked to have a murderer given to you. Acts 3:14
  The Holy Spirit:
  and was established as the powerful Son of God by the resurrection from the dead according to the Spirit of holiness. Romans 1:4

  5. Eternality:
  The Father:
  Before the mountains were born, before You gave birth to the earth and the world, from eternity to eternity, You are God. Psalms 90:2
  The Son:
  Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are small among the clans of Judah; One will come from you to be ruler over Israel for Me.His origin is from antiquity, from eternity. Micah 5:2
  He was with God in the beginning. John 1:2
  “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “the One who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty.”
  Rev 1:8
  When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. He laid His right hand on me, and said, “Don’t be afraid! I am the First and the Last, Rev 1:17
  The Holy Spirit:
  how much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to serve the living God? Heb 9:14
  6. Truth:
  The Father:
  As He was teaching in the temple complex, Jesus cried out, “You know Me and you know where I am from. Yet I have not come on My own, but the One who sent Me is true. John 7:28
  The Son:
  “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
  “The Holy One, the True One, the One who has the key of David, who opens and no one will close, and closes and no one opens says: Rev 3:7
  The Holy Spirit:
  And the Spirit is the One who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 1 John 5:6

  Can anyone other than God have the attributes of God?

  THREE-IN-ONESS WITHIN GOD
  Matt 28:19 reads: Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father
  and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
  It is highly revealing that the word "name' is singular in the Greek, indicating there is one God, but three
  distinct persons within God - the father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus does not say, "into the names
  [plural] of" or what is its virtual equivalent, "into the name of the Father, and into the name of the Son, and
  into the name of the Holy Spirit," as if we had to deal with three separate Beings. Nor does He say, "into the
  name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" (omitting the three recurring articles), as if "the Father, Son, and
  Holy Spirit" might be taken as merely three designations of a single person. What He does say is this: "into
  the name [singular] of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," first asserting the unity of the
  three by combining them all within the bounds of the single name, and then throwing into emphasis the
  distinctness of each by introducing them in turn with the repeated article (of).
  In conclusion, Jehovah's Witnesses quote Deuteronomy 6:4 as proof that God is not a trinity:
  “Listen, Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One.
  However, why do they insist that the Hebrew word translated "one" in this passage (echad) must refer to an
  absolute unity only, yet allow that the same word, when used in Genesis 2:24 to describe the marriage
  relationship, must refer to a composite unity:
  "This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife, and THEY become ONE flesh?"
  Two people = ONE flesh; therefore, there is no way that the wording of Deuteronomy 6:4 excludes the Trinity:
  rather, the Hebrew word used for "one" (echad) may well indicate the reference is to more than one person.
  When Scripture is so unequivocal in its teaching that “No one can be a slave of two masters" (Matt 6:24), how
  can James have two separate masters and serve Jesus with the same diligence as Jehovah?
  James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.... James 1:1
  
  Jehovah's Witnesses misinterpret 1 Corinthians 14:33 in saying the Trinity cannot be biblical because God is
  not a God of confusion. Simply because we don't fully comprehend a doctrine does not mean the doctrine is
  false. For human beings to be able to understand everything about God, we would need to have the very mind of
  god. Scripture affirms:
  Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments and
  untraceable His ways! Romans 11:33
  
  “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not My ways.” [This is] the Lord’s declaration.
  “For as heaven is higher than earth, so My ways are higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
  Isaiah 55:8-9

  For now we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know
  fully, as I am fully known. 1 Cor 13:12

  Scripture is clear that human reasoning has limitations. Finite minds cannot possibly understand everything
  there is to know about an infinite being. just as a young child cannot understand everything his father says
  and does, so we as God's children cannot understand everything about God.
  Consulting the context of 1 Corinthians 14:33 shows that the Corinthian church was plagued by internal
  divisions and disorder, especially in regard to the exercise of spiritual gifts. Since God is a God of peace,
  Paul says the church must model itself after God by seeking harmony in its services. By doing so honors God.

  1 Corinthians 14:33 doesn't even remotely deal with the Trinity.

  Then he replies back,

  MATT 3:17 AND A VOICE FROM HEAVEN SAID THIS IS MY SON WHOM I LOVE WITH HIM I AM WELL PLEASED.
  MATT 16:16 SIMON PETER ANSWERED YOU ARE THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
  MATT 4:3 SATAN HIMSELF SAYS YOU ARE THE SON OF GOD "THE TEMPTER CAME TO HIM AND SAID IF YOU ARE THE SON OF GOD TELL THESE STONES TO BECOME BREAD".
  JOHN 20:31 BUT THESE ARE WRITTEN THAT YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST THE SON OF GODANDHTAT BY BELIEVING YOU MAY HAVE LIFE IN HIS NAME.

  Then I replied back saying,

  Jehovah is king of Isreal in ISA. 44:6 , and Jesus is identified as King of Isreal in Mark 15:32 and John 1:49, therefore Jesus must also share the name Jehovah. Additionally, Jehovah comes from the " I AM " of Exodus 3:14. The name in Hebrew is YHWH which is where we get Jehovah.
  God says in Isa. 46:5 that no one is equal or even compareable to Him, and says in Isa, 48:11 that he will share his glory with no one, yet every name applied to Jehovah in the Old Testament is applied to Jesus in the New Testament or prophetically in the Old Testament.
  God says inIsa. 45:23 that " to Me " -- Not "to my Son" or "to my Redeemer"-- but " to Me " every knee will bow, etc. Yet in Philippians 2: 9-10 , it says that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, etc... And Acts 4:12 says that there's no other name given that can save except the name of Jesus !
  Finally, Jesus accepted worship ( Matt. 8:2 , 9 : 18 , 14:33 , 15:25 , 28:9 , 28:17 )
  Knowing only Jehovah God is to be worshipped ( Luke 4:8 )
  I hope this helps son I really do, I would never ever cause you to stray away from God as that would send me to hell for eternity and I will not allow that. I love you dearly and I would die for you in a heart beat, and so I would never lie to you about God and the reality of being free in God !
  I was a youth pastor for almost two years, you could not hold that kind of position if you did not know your scriptures. Okay ?
  Love Dad

  If this was you what would you have done or said ?

  Oldflame