slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
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  slimboyfat

  And indeed JWs did face existential crises following 1914 and 1925. We know that they struggled on and survived (largely on the basis of determined and ruthless leadership by Rutherford) but they may not have done, it wasn't a fore gone conclusion. And in those instances they had their book/magazine selling business to fall back on. Now they don't have that.
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I've searched for information on downsizing to put it into some kind of perspective. One example I come across is General Motors which experienced poor sales and cut its workforce by around 20% in 2008/9. It needed a government bailout to keep operating.

  Watchtower on the other hand has lost its whole market for book/magazine sales and in a single year cut bethelite numbers by more than 25%. Who is going to bail them out?

  In percentage terms Watchtower layoffs seems to be the largest example of downsizing I can find. And that was just a single year. We don't even know yet if/how many they cut in 2016/7.

  No evidence of financial difficulty. Are you kidding?
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  No evidence of financial problems? Watchtower has lost its core business of selling books and magazines. What more evidence do you need? Do you think it can run on thin air?

  Your evidence that Watchtower is not in financial trouble is that they are "still there". But any organisation facing collapse is "still there" until it actually collapses. What sort of evidence is that? And besides it's about 25% less "still there" (by some measures such as bethelites and branches) than it was a couple of years ago (probably more than 25% in terms of declining print output) and shrinking rapidly. The question is can it shrink to a sustainable level, or will it shrink away entirely.

  The point is to look for indications of what's going on. If cutting quarter of your staff in a single year is not an indication then what on Earth would be? Or cutting more than a quarter of your branches? Or failing to actually produce a physical product at your annual conventions - for the first time in your 140 year existence. If these are not indications (among many other things!) then what on Earth would be?

  And again with the 1 or 2 billion from property sales. We have been through that. Yes it must have helped, but how much? How much did Warwick cost? And how many years can the rest cover the deficit? At their level of spending (quarter of a billion on full time servants outside bethel alone, every year) perhaps not very long!

  Even if Stephen Lett and Samuel Herd hadn't said a word, observers would obviously have been speculating about their financial situation anyway, given these developments. Their announcements and the panicked look on their faces just confirms what we already know.
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Okay.

  But wouldn't you also welcome a positive transformation?

  To be specific the main reform I would require is to stop shunning. And that's basically it. Thereby making blood, free thinking, and most things matters of conscience. People disfellowshipped for "serious sins" (in practice mostly fornication) could be denied privileges but not congregationally shunned, but instead encouraged.

  Plus I'd emphasise teaching God's name and rejecting participation in the military. I'd also reinstate book and magazine publishing with cover prices.

  I'd also encourage education, programs to help the community, accept gay people, women elders.

  But the most important reform is shunning.
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  And to those who say Watchtower is resilient and always changing over its 140 year history: yes and no. They've transformed in many ways: doctrinally, organisationally, demographically, aesthetically.

  But one constant during most of their history (1879-1990) was that they made a healthy profit from book and magazine publishing. They built their organisation and community on that basis. Can they find another basis on which to support the organisation? Maybe. But it's not like other challenges they've faced. It strikes at the very core of how the religion operated for most of its existence.
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Mormons have always had sports and parties to attract new members. During the testimony meeting last month one of the Mormon sisters described herself as having a "baseball baptism". Becuase as a teenager she joined the Mormon missionaries and other local youngsters to play baseball and before she knew it she was baptised a Mormon. That was in the 1960s and she's still a member of the church. So it was an effective way for Mormons to get converts for a long time. But Mormons are finding it difficult to get any converts in western countries these days. Apart from addicts, homeless people or others with severe social problems they don't have much luck at all.
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Yes, no, I was confused earlier. On reflection I agree with Fisherman, Watchtower shows signs of imminent collapse. Ultimately, who knows? But I think there's a fair chance Watchtower is in critical condition at the moment.

  Some have assumed that if Lett is lying then it's to exaggerate their financial difficulties in order to elicit more contributions. But it's equally possible he is in fact concealing the extent of the financial crisis in order not to panic the membership or to undermine their confidence in the GB's leadership.
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I don't want Watchtower to fail. I'm hoping that an existential crisis will be what prompts JWs to reform and transform into the kind of organisation many hope for. I think it can happen. Oroborius1 used to maintain a website about transformation, but it's not there any more now that I search for it.
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I'm getting brighter and brighter. ;-)
• 
  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  The second one, as explained above.