Posts by slimboyfat

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

I guess believers might view the situation a bit like this:

You have a trusted friend that you know very well. Some event happens and some money goes missing. In their absence everything seems to point to the conclusion that your trusted friend stole the money. The people present discussing the situation point out that all the evidence shows your trusted friend stole the money. There is simply no other logical conclusion that can reasonably be drawn. And you have to admit that you can't think of any other explanation either. Yet you insist that you don't believe your trusted friend stole the money because you trust them, and you believe they wouldn't do that. The other people mock you and insist there simply is no other explanation and demand that you explain what other explanation can there be. You rack your brain and you can't think of any other explanation. Yet you still trust your friend, and even if you can't think of the explanation, you believe that there must nevertheless be some explanation.

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

1 - A tower collapsing is NOT a natural disaster.

It could or it could not be depending on your definition. If it was because of an earthquake I think most people would call it a natural disaster. If it collapsed because of human intervention of carelessness I guess most would say that's not a natural disaster.

On the other extreme you get some believers who insist that even earthquakes are not natural disasters and claim they are man made.

I am not sure the distinction is terribly meaningful or helpful anyway. In as much as, in either case, people suffer, and an almighty God could stop it if he wished.

2 - The Galileans did not die in a natural disaster; they were murdered by Herod.

I never said otherwise.

3 - Jesus gave an explanation for the death of the men in the tower. They were unrepentant sinners.

Jesus pointed out that they were no more sinful than others. And Matthew Henry comments: "He [Jesus] cautioned his hearers not to blame great sufferers, as if they were therefore to be accounted great sinners." Which is the basic point I am making to you.

4 - Jesus said his hearers would similarly perish UNLESS they repent.

Yes Jesus said they would perish if they didn't repent.

5 - He never said a single word about natural disasters.

I counted the collapse of the tower as a natural disaster. But as you point out it's the indiscriminate nature of such events, rather than whether they are "natural" or not, which is the main focus here.

6 - Natural disasters kill people indiscriminately including repentant sinners, babies and infants.

Jesus' point was precisely this. The people who died in the tower collapse were not more sinful than others.

7 - Jesus taught a god who is love

Yes and this apparently was compatible with Jesus' belief that people who die in disasters are not being punished for being especially sinful but that such events can happen to all sinners.

8 - The god who created a world that randomly kills millions of its inhabitants would be a evil god.

That does seem like a reasonable conclusion. And I don't know what the answer is. And none of the answers to the problem of suffering I have seen are satisfying. But that doesn't mean there is no answer or there can't be something about the situation I am not aware of or don't understand properly.

People who believe in God on other grounds often don't have an answer to this question either. But they trust that God is more perfect than their own minds,

Every post you have made in the past few pages is nothing but obfuscation. But you already know that. As usual it's all a dishonest game to you.

I make my arguments honestly and with sincerity. Cut out the snide rhetoric it does you no credit.

18

If you had the opportunity to create religious doctrine from scratch,what rule would your church or nation have?

by Chook in

would you teach a heaven , hell, jesus , paradise.

what rule structure for discipline ect ,ect,.

slimboyfat

Water
If I were called in
To construct a religion
I should make use of water.
Going to church
Would entail a fording
To dry, different clothes;
My liturgy would employ
Images of sousing,
A furious devout drench,
And I should raise in the east
A glass of water
Where any-angled light
Would congregate endlessly.

Philip Larkin

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

I don't know if Jesus had any good reasons for reconciling his belief in God and disasters, but it appears he accepted both, is all I'm saying. Therefore it's misleading to say disasters are incompatible with Jesus' God when Jesus himself acknowledged disasters.

It's like how sometimes atheists will imply you can't be a scientist and believe in God. And all you have to do is point out the many prominent scientists who believe in God, which refutes the claim.

If you say you can't believe in the God of Jesus in light of suffering from natural disasters. It is of course relevant to point out that Jesus himself apparently believed in his God despite natural disasters that he spoke about.

,

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

Jesus thought he was God?

I think it is relevant to point out that Jesus was aware of natural disasters and that it didn't dent his belief in God in the context of a claim that natural disasters are incompatible with Jesus' God.

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

The point I was making is that Jesus was well aware of natural disasters and it apparently didn't stop his faith in God. Therefore your claim that natural disasters are incompatible with Jesus' God is at the very least problematic.

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

I think Jesus was promising salvation if they repent, not simply avoiding death in this or that disaster. He was using the two disasters to make the point that disasters can befall anyone but that the only way to be saved in the end is to repent.

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

He mentioned Gallilee and Jerusalem. You think he was isolating a particular group rather than "sinful" humans in general?

It reads to me like Jesus was saying: you think those people must have been especially bad because they died? They were not especially bad it could happen to anyone. Everyone needs to repent if they want to live. Matthew Henry seems to agree.

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

I posted the last message ages ago. Not sure why it is showing up now.

Coded, Cofty often invokes a flat earth theory as a sort of trump card. I guess you are being serious about it being compelling, despite my initial reaction you must be joking.

102

Any atheists here? Have you come to terms with your new reality?

by kpop in

jw
friends

alone, without my safety net of "god" being there to remember me when i die.

after much consideration, examining science, history and using logic, i have come to the conclusion that there is no "god" at least certainly no loving, personal "god.

" shortly before my final conclusion was reached, i read an excerpt from an expression attributed to marcus aurelius, .

slimboyfat

My point was that Jesus was not unaware of disasters. He didn't offer the excuse that people die for a reason or they must have done something to deserve it. Neither does he say "if you repent then nothing bad can ever happen to you". He seems to accept that bad things can happen and does not find this incompatible with his view of God.